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The Touring Fan Live
Another Unnecessary List- Is Rock And Roll A Sound Or A Stance
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The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame always finds a way to start a fight, and the 2026 class is no exception. We jump from concert posters and the closing of Gallery 1988 to a full-on debate about what the Hall is supposed to reward: sales, influence, longevity, cultural disruption, or some messy mix of all four.
We break down the 2026 Rock Hall inductees Phil Collins, Billy Idol, Iron Maiden, Joy Division/New Order, Oasis, Sade, Luther Vandross, and Wu-Tang Clan, then pull apart the logic behind the biggest headline: Mariah Carey getting left out again. We lay out the stats, talk through the “rock bias” that still shows up in voting, and ask why pop legends keep getting treated like side quests in a museum that claims to document music history. From there, we dig into influence as a real musical currency, from Iron Maiden’s blueprint for modern metal to Joy Division and New Order shaping alternative and electronic rock for decades.
The conversation widens to the definition of rock and roll itself, including hip hop’s place in the Hall and why Wu-Tang’s impact fits the original spirit of rebellion better than a narrow “guitars only” rule. We also get into the practical side of the ceremony: who can actually perform, why some years feel like catch-up years, and which artists we think the Hall keeps missing, especially Jeff Buckley. We wrap with what’s exciting right now, including a surge of women-fronted rock and a reminder that defining live moments like Nine Inch Nails at Coachella can be as historic as any induction.
If you’ve got a take, we want it. Subscribe, share this with the friend who always argues about the Rock Hall, and leave a review with who you think got snubbed most.
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Copyright The Touring Fan Live 2026
New Season And Soundboard Fix
SPEAKER_00All right, and welcome to a new season of uh Touring Fan Live and a new episode of another unnecessary list. This is the fifth time that we have done uh a live uh rundown of the Rock Roll Hall of Fame, and this year we're there's no difference. We're gonna get right into it because I have a lot of opinions, and we sure as hell know Brian does as well.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yay! Excited. Excited that you have a lot of opinions. Because I also do have a lot of opinions, yes.
SPEAKER_00Uh you know, now we just did a major update. Listen, this is the one thing I hate about technology. Um, we did a huge update on my soundboard and the app I use. So I'm trying to make sure that we don't have an echo. So while I'm testing something, uh Brian, why don't you give me a little update on how things are going on in your world?
SPEAKER_01Wow. Um, so so busy, um, to be honest. Uh I just uh lots of posters uh that I've just finished up that are releasing. I did a Wilco poster uh for the opening of their spring tour uh last week, and I've got another one dropping um uh Monday for a show in Kansas, and then uh next week I'm I did the poster for the uh Afghan Whigs homecoming show, their 40th anniversary tour. They're playing at Bogart's in Cincinnati. So I did the poster for that show, and uh just busy, busy, busy, you know, stuff coming for summertime and summer tours and things like that. So yeah, lots of lots of artwork coming. And then, of course, the the sadness that is gallery 1988 announcing that they're closing um at the end of this month. Uh, you know, tomorrow will be the last day of the gallery. They're gonna be selling off everything that they have. And so it's a really um sad time, I think, for me of me and for a lot of you know artists and art lovers uh that have you know patronized that that gallery for over 20 years. I mean, they were one of the first um pop culture galleries to to you know really start in that space. Um, and then you had like spoke art and um hero complex gallery and places like that. So uh you know they made it last for as as long as they could, and they really put in a great effort and they really gave a lot of uh artists kind of their first stop first um first uh opportunity to show in a gallery and do things like that. So um it's uh it's sad to see it go, but I think they did a really good job. So my uh my hats off to Gallery 1988.
SPEAKER_00And I know that they've had your daughters at work in there as well uh a few times.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she actually sold her first um her first piece was uh she did a doll um for one of the uh one of the uh Crazy for Cult shows and she made a doll when she was in high school of uh of uh uh the the girl from Heathers uh after she had, you know, after the school had blown up and everything and she ended up selling it and was really excited. And then she made another doll that didn't sell, and then it actually sold when they had announced announced their first uh discounting of things. They had discounted 40% and that doll sold. So uh yeah, that was kind of her first foray into into being an artist, and she is actually getting ready to graduate from college next week. And she is uh yes, yes, and she is to this day an artist and very creative. So yeah, it was her uh her first uh foray into the art world, which was really cool. So well cool it's a really it's a really yeah, thank you. It's a really special, I think, place and it gave a lot of people you know the opportunity to to show to a wider audience and uh really launched a lot of different artists' careers. So it's it's really great um what they were able to do.
SPEAKER_00Well, no, that's fantastic. It is it is um I I do feel there's a shift in the art world when it comes to pop culture art and uh concertosa art. Um you know, this just coming from a consumer side, as you can tell from this room and and how we met and everything like that. It was definitely through that that that uh medium. Um and it's interesting seeing now like um a lot of the bigger artists that are that have been well known for years aren't do nearly doing as much as they did in the past. And there's a lot coming up that are doing it, but a lot of the galleries and the websites that were so hot and heavy from the early two thousands to right up until COVID. Um you know it was really hard to ball rolling. And I I feel like there was just a shift in the collect the collection market, because I mean I had a great conversation with a friend of mine this past week and that came to visit me for my birthday. And I feel as though a lot of the people that as they get older, you know, speaking for myself um and him, were were really just trying to downsize because we just get so much. And I found myself over the last few shows just walking past a merch booth and really not getting anything. Or I used to be really hot and heavy on emails and getting you know these posters or these collectibles or these art pieces, and I got to the point where I had to decide like well, if I get something, I'm gonna have to replace it with something, and then that became you know, and it it's just sad. I mean but I get it, and hopefully that shift that that that changes, because there is I do feel, and we'll talk about that in a little bit later on, about this new kind of upbringing, and or not even the upbringing, like this new way of uh music and this new these new artists and this new fan base and this younger generation, and I feel like it comes in waves, and I really do feel like there's this new wave of uh of fan base and of music and stuff that I think could really jump in and dive in and get into it like we did uh back in our younger years. I can say that now because I'm 41 and I've I'm starting to feel on my back.
SPEAKER_01Um, I mean I I agree, it's really it's really cyclical, and I think um, you know, there was a huge, you know, golden age of of concert posters in the in the 90s. I mean, I think obviously, you know, the 60s and the psychedelic stuff and then 60s and 70s and then the 90s, you know, there was this resurgence, and and it's in that real in the you know, Kozick and all the guys in the 90s that really you know brought Kozak and Jermaine and and Emick and all those guys, they they really you know laid the table for the rest of us to kind of come and start doing things. But you know, the the business does go through cycles and it and it is a business and it does change. Um, and it changed certainly a lot post-COVID. Um and the landscape has shifted, and there's you know, new people to new people coming in, there's new people that you're dealing with, there's a lot more merch companies now. Um, so you're not necessarily working directly with bands as much. Um, I I you know fortunately do get to work directly with a lot of bands, um, not necessarily through merch companies, but um they're they're generally smaller bands, but you know, acts that we grew up with, we know, like you know, Will Go and Afghan wigs and and bands like that, and they're doing these kind of you know, nostalgia tours now that they're like, you know, 30, 38th anniversary, 35th anniversary, 40th anniversary stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and there are still people that, you know, you know, the merch booth is is is still hopping, but I totally get it. You know, like you've got you've got a stack of, you know, you've probably got a flat file and a stack of posters, and I've got, you know, three flat files and posters that are mine and posters that are other people's. And and uh it's hard to get it gets to a point where you kind of gotta, I thought about you know, downsizing some of my collection and things like that, you know, things that aren't gonna get framed and things that aren't gonna be displayed. I mean, because you, you know, wall space in your house is at a premium, so you only have so much you can you can do. I actually my office is um my my day job, my office is uh they're moving to a new one. We're moving to a new office in a couple of months, so I had to bring home stuff that I had in my cube because we're not gonna have cubes in the new office. It's gonna be like, you know, one of those open concept things. So I had to bring home like my four posters that I had framed in my office, and now I've got a I don't have walls to hang them on. So it's kind of but yeah, it's uh you know, it's it's it's it's it's interesting the way things change, and you know, but uh I'm sure that hopefully there'll be another another, you know, kind of rise of the of the of the poster and and and uh in art like that. And I'm sure it'll it'll definitely come around and it'll probably change into something else.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, probably so. And then did you say you're doing a poster for a show in Kansas?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. The Wilco uh Wilco was playing in Selena, Kansas.
SPEAKER_00So uh I'm doing uh I did the poster for that show.
unknownGotcha.
SPEAKER_00That's that is not close to me at all.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, it's uh I don't know where it is, but it was it was a fun i I always I it's just I enjoy working with them. They're just a you know, they're a dad rock dad rock band, and you know, I just that's my type of sensibility.
2026 Rock Hall Nominees Explained
Inductees List And First Reactions
SPEAKER_00So well that's uh well let's let's jump in dive in. So let's first of all, I you know, we are looking at a nominees list that came through that we were like, all right, there's this is a really solid nominees list. There was a lot of opportunities there. Um when it first came out, the one that the you know the list that came out for the nominees originally was the Black Rose, Jeff Buckley, Mariah Carey, Phil Collins, Melissa Etheridge, Lauren Hill, Billy Idol, NXS, Iron Maiden, Joy Division slash New Order, New Edition, Oasis Pink, Sade, Shakira, Luther Van Gross, and Wu-Tang Clan. That was what they were voting on. Now, I want to say this. It was a it was a total of 17 nominees originally in 2026. So, and they had to be some things. If you don't know too much about the rock and roll of fame, you have to be at least 25 years in uh uh to be able to qualify. So you have to be a musician and artist for 25 years. And then it's voted on by 1,200 industry members, and a lot of those members are are uh like anonymous, like we don't know who they are. There's a few people that speak up and they say, Hey, this is how I voted and stuff. For the most part, they're anonymous. And then uh 10 of the 17 nominees that came out through this year were first time nominees, and the uh majority of the genres were rock, hip hop, RB, pop, Latin, and metal. Uh based and the Latin one was for Shakiro. Um so just to give you some kind of key factors for the nominees list. We had reached out to each other and were like, hey, all right, let's let's think about what we can do here uh for this uh list. And uh we kind of gave our opinion about it. Now the actual list of the inductees came out and this is the inductees Bill Collins, Billy Idol, Iron Maiden, Joy Division slash New Order, Oasis, Sade, Luther Vandros, and Wu Tang Clan.
SPEAKER_01And when I saw that, I said Yeah, what were your first what was your first thought when you saw the list?
SPEAKER_00I was like, how is Mariah Carey not on this list yet?
The Case For Mariah Carey
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And I I know that we sound like we must sound like we're the biggest lambs, because that's what Mariah calls her like fans. We must sound like we're the biggest Mariah Carey fans in the world. And we are not. I will I will tell you that. I that was a Paul, that was a really good list, and that is something that I think that and I'm I think Mariah was probably on it. But yeah, I went so and I'm big on, you know, Anthony and I have talked a lot about this, and I'm big on um stats. I mean, I I want to I want to look at certain stats, I want to look at like album sales and and certain interesting stats that that that artists have. Mariah Carey, head and shoulders, has has so many things that only she has done, so many things that only she's done as a woman. There are so many records and accolades and and sales things that she has that just put her in this like class by herself. And she blows away all of these, you know, all the nominees as far as album sales and all of the amazing things that she's done in her career. Um and the and all I have to say is the fact that she it's this is the third year in a row that she has not gotten in is just criminal, it's absolutely criminal.
SPEAKER_00Um here are some stats for you to ponder there, and for everyone listening. 19 number one billboard hits, most by any solo artist as of today. 220 plus million records sold worldwide, a hundred plus weeks at number one on billboard charts over multiple songs, ranked among the greatest singers ever in Rolling Stone, and it was in a top five. She's been eligible since 2015, PS.
SPEAKER_01If there's any if there was ever a person that should be a first ballot like in, it should have been Mariah Carey. There's no question about it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and so I've I've listened to some other voters who've talked through podcasts and articles about why they didn't vote for Mariah Carey. And um, let's talk about some of those things, right? Oh okay. So some of the thing is the rock bias that guitars are greater than vocal mindset. That was someone who said that she is more vocally driven than anything. She's not a band, she's an artist, which I would say is silly because we'll talk about rock and roll and what that means later on, and why that point is stupid. Um pop artists are undervalued historically. Uh I can see that. I mean, I I think that there's a lot of people, and we'll talk about this later, about what the idea of rock and roll is and what the term means and how that's being held over on some people. Right.
SPEAKER_01And I I think it's that's a really good point because I think it's it's being held over on some people, but not on across the board. Yeah. Correct.
SPEAKER_00And then commercial success isn't her taking is taken less serious for her because of other things, like someone says that her music is too commercial. Um, and some people say that, you know, Mariah Carey, if you think of Mariah Carey or now you think of just of her Christmas songs. And I say that's silly. I don't believe that at all.
SPEAKER_01I think it's a yeah, that's an excuse.
SPEAKER_00And then here's the here's some questions for people, right? When you look at the list today, right, is Mariah Carey more influential than 50% of the current inductees? And I have an answer for that because I would say 100%.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And let me ask you this: do you think as of right now? Now, I would say that the only other person we could have talked about previous to this probably would have been Iron Maiden, because I think that we have gained a knowledge base based off the fan base and the hate we got on TikTok about Iron Maiden.
SPEAKER_01Well, let's be let's be honest, it was the hate that I got. It wasn't you, Anthony. It was me, and I totally deserved it. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Is she right now the biggest snub in Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
SPEAKER_01I would have to say yes. I think I mean, and and I think that, you know, will she she's gonna get in, yes. But I think that I mean, and and let's not I I have no no disrespect to Luther Vandrosen, I know that we're gonna talk about him later, but to put Luther in over Mariah is just insanity. Absolute insanity.
SPEAKER_00Think about some of the nominees that were posted this year, and like Lauren Hill, I would say Lauren Hill, you know, could you know potentially has some could look back and say, hey, Mariah Carey could have influenced me a little bit. I would also I would also say Shakira. I would say Shakira's a better Shakira, her career, but um Pink, another one. I mean, there's there's so many people that when you look at there's there's definitely influence and some sort of tie-ins that Mariah Carey had. The biggest when I think of Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, especially when I comes to the nominees or inductees, are did this person do something in the history of music that either A, is it something that they put songs out that are so catchy and so driven that we're like, man, I know who that is, or were they an artist that say, hey, this is someone who influenced my band? They are someone that really helped curve a pathway for others, they were someone that were leaders. There's so much to it. And Mariah Carey really checks so many boxes. I mean agreed.
SPEAKER_01And we talk about that a we've talked about that a lot, the whole influence thing, you know, and and we've talked about it with other bands, like how many people say they were how many people how many bands now or artists now do you say that say, man, I was really in I was really influenced by Def Leopard or Bon Jovi. And I know that we hate to sound like we pick on Def Leopard and Bon Jovi all the time, but there's plenty of other ones. Nobody, nobody's out there repping bad company all the time. But no, but I mean you look at the ones on this list, you look at Iron Maiden, you look at Joy Division, you look at Mariah Carey, you those are those are artists and even artists that didn't get in that were on the list, uh, on the nominee list, Lauren Hill. Yeah, but uh yeah, I I think that I I think for me that that that influence portion is really important. And I think that you need I think for me that's essential. The influence is how and that's how it carries on rock music or pop music or whatever into the future. It's it's it's artists that influence other artists.
SPEAKER_00There's gotta be when you go to the museum, the rock and roll of fame, and you see an artist, and let's say you don't know who it is, because as we get older and younger people get in, you know, I mean and younger people visit the rock and roll of fame and they're involved in it a little bit more, there's gonna be a time that is separates. We're closer to it than they are. They're gonna look at someone like I don't know, I'm trying to think of an artist, but let's just say or giggles, I don't know, let's say Oasis, okay. In third years, Oasis, let's say, is not as popular as they are right now, because right now they're definitely a nostalgia act in some sense as the way they're touring. Majority of the people in the United States seeing them, it's for their hits and their stuff. There's I don't know if they have like the the hardcore hit fan base in the States as they do overseas. But in third year, if someone goes there, they can learn about them, they can see how Oasis influenced so many other bands and what they've done and other songs and movies and learn about them. There's got to be something that that band has done that really that makes them stand out, right? And that and that's where I think I I I kind of had a hard time with this this inductee list this year. I mean it it's just tough. I mean, you can't tell me, right? I learned this is a crazy stat. Mariah Carey has more hits than entire bands in the hall, and that percentage is 97% of the bands in the Rock and Hall of Fame. Mariah Carey has more hits than 97% of the bands in Rock and Hall of Fame.
Phil Collins Stats And Timing Debate
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Yeah. And and it's things like that that and there was a there was a stat that I saw that really so my wife and I had a huge conversation when the nominee list came out about Phil Collins. And you know, well, and you know that you know we've talked before about I hold a lot of um I hold a lot, I have a lot of interest in artists that are in the hall twice. So they get in with either you know a soul usually specifically it with a band and then as a solo act. Um that's a very, very small list. I mean, we're talking Paul McCartney, we're talking Michael Jackson, we're talking like Ozzy. We've mentioned Ozzy before. So I mean it's a very rarefied air type of type of scenario. That's Phil Collins is now in that group. Um one of the stats that I saw that in Phil, you know, he's sold a lot of records, you know, you know, great, you know, he's a lot of hits. Um, but he is one of the he's one of only three people in the hall that have sold that are in as a with a band and a solo act, and sold over a hundred million albums with the band and as a solo act. And the only two people to be on that level are Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson. I mean, that is pretty yeah, that's pretty that's pretty significant. So um, you know, as much as we want to hate on, you know, Phil Collins, no jacket required, man. He had bangers back in the day and wrote a lot of songs and he's done a lot of stuff.
SPEAKER_00So well, I think that's I think that's what kind of brings me to my point a little while ago, who is I'm definitely far attached from Phil Collins. Like I am, I might know maybe what was it? Did he do a Lion King song?
SPEAKER_01He did, he won an Oscar for it. Yeah, but but that was but that was kind of like the end. I mean, you probably you so since I'm about 10 years older than you, you don't know like Susu Studio and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_00I mean you've probably heard it, but I'm not like I'm not jumping through hoops to put Susu Studio or Susu Studio.
SPEAKER_01Well, sure playlist. Sure. And and I'm not, you know, I'm not like pulling Phil up on my Spotify every day, but you know, if he has well, I mean, let's be honest, in the air tonight is like that's the the Phil Collins song that everybody knows. Um but uh but yeah, man, he just hit after hit. I mean so uh and to just be in that like that level of like you know, in that statement of like Paul McCartney, Michael Jackson, Phil Collins. I mean, that's that's pretty that's pretty impressive.
SPEAKER_00I would say so. And then that's and here's the thing, that makes me want to like if I went to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and then the first thing I saw is like that, like uh out of the three people you're telling me that he's in with, you know, you're talking about Michael Jackson, Paul McCartney, I'd be like, all right, let me learn a little more. I'd be digging into that. Um and I think that's what makes it interesting. I mean that's it.
SPEAKER_01I do think, and I think that maybe that's something that, yeah, like you said, like a younger, you know, younger generation. generations may like maybe they'll discover Phil Collins and then they'll they'll be like oh I want to you know listen to Genesis and that can take them back to like you know then get to Peter Gabriel and then I mean it's it's like it's like these little things you go from one to the next to the next and in your like in your musical exploration and I think you know obviously that's super different for people nowadays with Spotify and Apple music. It's not like it was for us. But you know it's I think it's the same idea of of kind of exploring what your tastes are and what you like and and finding those things that really get you excited about music.
SPEAKER_00Maybe it's not Phil Collins maybe it is who knows yeah I yeah I can't say like I said I I have no issues with Phil Collins going in. And honestly I don't really have an issue with any of the artists going in. I don't know much about Luther Vandros. I try to listen to some of his music the other day not like it's not didn't really sync with me and that's fine. But I also feel like this is a very lazy rock and roll hall of fame.
Influence As The Hall’s Real Test
SPEAKER_01I think that we well I know I know that we've mentioned this before and it's something that I you know think about when they when you don't have like there are these kind of like lull years where you don't have like a band that you don't have a Nirvana or a Pearl Jam or a or a band you don't have a or a a radio head like a band that's you know first time up you know they're going in I mean it's a slam dunk. So they have these years where they're kind of like it seems like they're kind of making up for lost time by getting in some people. I mean I think one of the uh obvious examples is Joy Division and New Order who have been up for like the last three or four years it seems like and they constantly never get in um I I look at them I mean in the in this list I mean other than Iron Maiden to me they are like one of a band that was like a massive influence on so many bands like you there are so many bands nowadays and when we were coming up like a a nine inch nails is there even a nine inch nails without a band like Joy Division or New Order? I mean is there a nine inch nails is there a prodigy is there you know daft punk I mean I think that they really laid the the foundation for a lot of that electronic music that came out um in the late 80s early you know late 80s into the 90s and into the early 2000s um synth rock that synth keyboard that the ability to use it in a way that was unique and listen I know that people are going to say they're gonna name another band or another artist that they're gonna say is more influential and that's fine.
SPEAKER_00I think that's opinion based when you listen to interviews like Trent Resin the other day talking about how Joy Division was a huge influence on him and how synth rock was created and all this stuff it all kind of lingers back to those Joy Division songs and those songs that really kind of just stand out and they stand the test of time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah and and it's really cool like I don't know if you've ever seen the movie control that was directed by Anton Corbin. It's about it's about Joy Division and um and Ian Curtis and uh they like met they all got together at a Sex Pistol show so I mean what was happening at that time was punk and they from the from their love of the Sex Pistols and other music they found this you know this electronic synth based you know that can that kind of came out of that and that to me is really interesting and it's it really shows that they were doing something completely different than what was the what was considered you know mainstream at that time which was which was punk um and how they just you know created this whole other type of music and there are bands that have you know bands that reference joy division and new order as as influences um bow house susie and the banshees you two the cure nine inch nails soundgarden I mean that's a band that had wide ranging influence on lots of different types of bands I mean even into the 90s and grunge and stuff like that. So um that to me is that's a that's a big influential band. And I think you can say the same for for Iron Maiden you know they influenced you know they've had influences to to bands like Metallica all the way up to like Avenge Sevenfold and and and you know heavy bands like that. So to me those are the type of uh those are the type of bands and and type of artists that you know that have that wide influence that that should require more consideration as far as I'm concerned.
SPEAKER_00No and and there's different ways and I know this is where I think you and me might disagree with one of these artists there's different ways to look at how you're influential in the sense that some bands are going to be influential and how they provide a landscape for this artist or new artist to want to be a musician or create a sound based off of what they heard. But I think there's other artists that made music that was so like I guess that's it just they it just stood stood out and it's it's it's radio played all the time and it's around and it's multiple hits and they're still touring and they're still selling at venues. And and so there's different ways of looking at it because I think when I first started looking at at the Rock and Hall of Fame and really started digging into things I was so like I think the older I get the more I've changed my opinion about this but I was so like looking into bands and stuff of like what I think should go in the rock and roll of fame and not looking at a wider landscape of why they deserve to be in the rock and roll of fame. And you know I know like we talked about Iron Maiden I think Iron Maiden when you look at bands um there was an article that came out two days ago and they talked about bands that were influenced by Aryan Maiden and they said that um key musical aspects were influenced that Aryan Maiden created was a twin guitar harm uh harmonies a melodic gallop which is um it's a signature galloping rhythm which is widely imitated because of them and then the progressive metal structure uh the songs like I guess it's called Family Opera considered found uh foundate foundational for Prague metal so it's almost a j genre defying uh way of playing things and then the power metal foundation that high pitched vocals and melodic speed paint the way for entire metal genre so when you look at things like that they created so many things and well just and just yeah the variety of stuff I mean they obviously influenced like you know the 80s you know hair metal the Hollywood hair metal scene and all that kind of stuff um but you mentioned like the prog rock and and that kind of I mean that's like straight up to tool so I mean that's that's a wide yeah that's a wide ranging and and that's what I like to see is I like to see I like to see acts that have wide ranging influence that are you know influencing different types of acts in different types of ways and um and that to me that to me should be something that that I like to see um I know that's not going to be everybody that's in the hall but that's what I like to see.
SPEAKER_01You know there are some people on this list that are getting in that I don't think have that um and and we'll talk about them um shortly but yeah there are some of these these acts I mean there I think most of them do this year. I think you can see where the influence is for a lot of these um but there are a couple that there are a couple that kind of stick out like sore thumbs and and you know we'll talk about them too so I will say this and I just want to kind of go back to Phil Collins.
SPEAKER_00Phil Collins I believe and he deserves to be in the rock roll of fame I don't think this year was the appropriate time to put him in. I think an artist like uh Jeff Buckley who right now is listen his listening is really high up since the documentary came out this year I think that a lot of his music's been a lot of places I think this would have been a good time to get him in. Um so I think the I think Phil Collins took that spot from him in that sense. When it looks like that solo artist, male solo artist, I think that was where they missed a spot where I think Jeff Buckley fits it better. And I think that makes the list a little bit better in that sense. Iron Maiden, uh just because we kind of jumped ahead and we talked about Iron Maiden a little bit, I think Iron Maiden definitely deserved to be in this year. I think they were overlooked especially when we were kind of told to look a little bit deeper into who Iron Maiden was and what they were doing. And when you and me really started looking at the amount of albums sold, the the tours being sold out all the time, the fan base that's so hot and heavy the amount of music that they've created in the sense that yeah it's not radio played but the amount of things that they've done in their careers to create a sound that was so heavily mimicked and and consistently pushed forward that right there alone I mean just shows that they were able to create something that really created that pathway for different sounds of music and new bands that come out from that. And then Joy Division New Order you know it I still have a hard time where they're where they're lumping them together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I do too I don't like that because I think they are well they're they're two distinct sounds I think I think that um I think that they're two pretty distinct sounds and I think it's kind of I understand why they do it but I think it's it's it's a little disingenuous um to to lump them together.
Oasis Timing And Ceremony Concerns
SPEAKER_00Yeah um but I mean I am glad that they're both in and I do think that the I mean it did make sense. I do think that it it was a little overlooked that we they kept getting overlooked for years. It made more sense. I'm gonna go right into Oasis. Let's talk about Oasis for a minute. I'm gonna say this um it's one year too late for me.
SPEAKER_01Uh they should have put them in the I think they I think they missed an op they missed the opportunity with the tour and everything and yeah I agree I agree with you there. And I just now I think I think do you think do they perform? No I think I think last year they performed I think this year I don't know if they do.
SPEAKER_00No I you know there was a couple of um posts online from different members of the band and things that were shared it just seems as though they're not going to perform uh and you know it is what it is. I listen I love Oasis and a lot of people are you know have heavy opinions one way or the other um some people say Oasis hasn't influenced that many. You know it it's tough for us and this is where I say people need to do their homework. When you look at Oasis and what they were able to accomplish uh when they first came out the amount of the shows they were selling out overseas their fan base overseas I mean people were legitimately comparing them to the Beatles at one point and the fan base and the craze overseas I think people don't realize how I think especially American fan American people don't realize how big they were over there and how big the whole like the Brit pop scene was and um I mean a hundred million albums they had eight eight number one albums eight number one singles I mean over in the UK and when they and when they dropped something it was the biggest thing that was going on in that country um you know influences I I saw I read articles you know influences from Arctic Monkeys the killers cold play all claim you know all say that they were influenced by Oasis so I mean it's kind of hard to argue with you know a band like Coldplay who at one point may have been the biggest band in the world you could argue you know being influenced by Oasis.
What Rock And Roll Really Means
SPEAKER_01I mean that's a pretty big uh it's a pretty big um feather to have in your cap there so I think that uh I think there isn't a question that that Oasis was going to be in at some point. Um but yeah I think they did miss the opportunity of of the hype last year with the with the tour and um yeah I I don't know I and I think that also that that leads us to who's gonna perform at this ceremony I mean there are not a lot of you've got Luther's gone you've got you know there isn't you know Ian Curtis is not alive you you know new order can perform um you know Phil Collins is unfortunately like you know unable to yeah unable to not doing well so I mean this could be a really rough looking performance wise ceremony and and not a lot we I think we had actually texted back and forth a lot of fast forwarding I see going on a lot of long speeches I assume and then yeah and we I I do think well I guess we'll just bounce around a little bit but I do think that uh outcast is going to be outshined with who will have the most people on stage yes they will definitely have the most people yes I worry that that stage is going to collapse to collapse under the weight of the Wu Tang clan. That's correct. So you've got nine people in the band and if they each bring up five people um yeah I mean outcast will lose they they lose too many people on stage Wu Tang will take that that title but uh well let's let's kind of talk about Wu Tang clan because I know that there was a lot of people that were upset with the idea of why Wu Tang clan was in well there's always a lot of people that you know we've talked about with the with the hip hop the the hip hop they don't like the hip hop they don't like the hip hop it's not rock and roll well guess what people I hate to tell you I hate to break it to you but rock and roll came out of RB and you know RB and country is is rock to me that's what rock and roll is so I mean and a lot of the people that invented rock and roll were black people. So uh and hip hop came out of rock and roll so it's all part and parcel. It's all part of the same thing. You can disagree with me that I that's totally fine but I mean it's all part of the same game.
SPEAKER_00See I well here's some interesting facts about rock and roll. We're kind of well because we're kind of talking about it all over let's talk about what the idea of rock and roll is the term rock and roll was actually created by DJ Allen Freed back in 1946. Okay. And it was based off the idea of blues RB and country like you said from the 1940s through 1950s and it was originally tied to youth rebellion and dance culture. The idea rock and roll was really used as a as a like a a term of like downplaying the idea of the youth rebellion that was going on with the music that was being played on the radio at that point. That in its sense right really was used to the idea of rock and roll was more of a like almost as a youth way of being rebellious in its music and rebellious in its dating to go against the mainstream.
SPEAKER_01Right now the idea that people what is more against the mainstream than hip hop I mean that's and here's the thing hip hop has surpassed rock as a dominant US genre as of December of twenty ten.
SPEAKER_00And then realistically genre lines have really blurred if you think about it when it comes to I to I mean because there's so many artists nowadays that do so many different things it's kind of hard to put a label on things of what it really is. Yeah. Um and the idea that rock and roll is defined by instruments, I mean that's that's stupid. I really think that rock and roll is defined by like attitude influence and like cultural disruption like I think hip hop carries rock energy today more than ever, especially when it comes to a political landscape lands landscape landscape I can't remember landscape yeah no yeah and yeah I I I really do feel like even pop artists have developed the idea that roll rock and roll is and and kind of you know put it out there. So I in my opinion rock and roll is a mindset and definitely not a sound. Um and I think that you know rap rap in it in its own sense really started bending the idea of what people thought was rock and roll um right at in in the mid to late nineties when they really started having the new metal come through when you had artists like God even like Tommy Lee who left uh you know he was not with uh you know doing what he was doing with uh whatever the hellley crew motley crew thank you and then started doing methods of mayhem with all the art you know they he with all those rap artist at a time was it good no methods of mayhem was not good but it was a way that he showed that you can mix things together link and well and I mean yeah new new metal I mean corn and and limb biscuit and son and and system of down and you know all of these and son or and not sonic youth but and rage against the machine I mean we had all of those all of those you know groups experimenting with this idea of of hip hop mixed with rock and roll and um you know and it all I it all kind of started in the mainstream with Aerosmith and Run DMC and walk this way.
SPEAKER_01I mean and uh there's always been I hip hop has always had a connection with rock and roll I mean I think it goes back to that that aerosmith and and run DMC you know collaboration. But then it you know it went off and did its own thing with you know with you know Compton and and and and the chronic and then you've got east coast west coast and then you've got all this and then you've got the south and you've got outcast and um I think that those rock and roll roots run pretty deep in in hip hop I mean like you said with influence and attitude and it's not just about it's not just about white faces and it's not just about guitars. It's about a lot of other things and it's not yeah rock and roll is not just you know it's not I mean even when you look at like what is one of the biggest rock and roll bands that everybody always goes to they go to roll the Rolling Stones. And where did the Rolling Stones get most of their influence? From Muddy Waters and the blues and that's where they so all of this stuff it it comes from um it comes from RB it comes from the blues and it comes from country music and to say which is what really you know annoys me when people are like you know Donnelly Parton shouldn't be in the rock and roll hall of fame she's she's more R she's more RB role than anybody I know. If it's RB blues and hip hop it's in rock and roll and it's a part of rock and roll. I agree. And you can argue that it's not but you know it's a it's gonna kind of fall on deaf ears.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I you know and I think that's I think the big problem I think you know everyone's saying that there should be a music hall of fame and a rock and hall of fame I think that's wrong. I think rock and roll hall of fame is the idea I think music really got culturally inspiring in the 40s going into the earlier days of the shift of even think of a swing music in that sense where people were hiding to dance culture to let out their feelings of what was going on during a war driven time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah um and then that was the really the beginning of rock and roll because it was a feeling and I think rock and roll is a feeling so you know it's a feel it's a feeling and it's and it's that that inherent rebelliousness which I think is is a part of it too and and and where more do you see that than in in hip hop as well I mean I think it I think hip hop embodies all of those you know rock and roll things that we talk about. So there's no for me it's just a natural evolution I mean um and Wu-Tang clan you know one of the best examples just like you know 40 million albums 36 chambers they've all all of the Wu Tang clan members like all had solo records. They all had if to have a band like that to have nine distinct personalities be able to you know even coexist for a couple of albums is pretty freaking impressive. And then just to you know still and I think there's that there's that staying power that still exists. I mean they they're touring to this day so I think that that idea that a band has been around for that long and still has that staying power and can still fill arenas and things like that I think that that is also something that's pretty high on the uh the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame list you know of of you know people that get in. So you know kudos to to Wu Tang. I think it'll be I mean does Dave Chappelle induct them I I think there kind of has to it kind of has because you know Wu Tang is for the children and uh Wu Tang clan ain't nothing to fuck with. So yeah I could see Dave Chappelle inducting them which could be fun. Which could be really fun hopefully carry last year. Um oh that's exactly what I was thinking of that was that was just that was painful really painful.
Who Should Have Made The Cut
SPEAKER_00Yeah I I think Wu Tang clan's gonna be good and I think the other thing too when it comes to the idea of knowing who it is a lot of kids nowadays wear the Wu Tang. That Wu Tang symbol is still so yeah in in sales it is still always in the top 150 uh ban merchandise sales yearly it's always in the top 150 less I'm looking at the numbers now with I mean there's stats from uh going all the way back to uh 2004 to 2026 they have always been in the top 150 most concert sold I'm sorry merchandise sold items whether it's through hot topic concerts or through local vendors their merchandise is always in the top 150. Um what's like the number what's the number one it's got to be the Rolling Stones right I mean uh it's it changes yearly but okay uh this year number one uh they don't have for 2026 for 2025 uh was Taylor Swift I should have I should have known that yeah well it's okay it's just different but here's so let's so let's who on the list of inductees are you most disappointed with okay so I told you I think Phil Collins I think took Jeff Buckley's face. I think Sade took Mariah Carey's base and I think Luther Vandros uh probably took I don't know if this is true to say this, but I think he took the black rose base. Okay and I think if you would have took uh put Jeff Buckley in there um and you put Mariah Carey in there maybe I'm Okay with Luther Vandros. Um I think black crows really are at more influential than people give them credit for when it comes to that Americana.
SPEAKER_01I really do agree sound with the southern rock and all that stuff. I mean, I yeah.
SPEAKER_00They took what um Leonard Skinner did and just made it more for us. Like I was never a huge Leonard Skinner fan. I think that was for more of the, you know, the the more of the country uh, you know, listing where I think black crows were for the that were like, hey, I want to work on a farm, but I don't want to get dirty. So that was me.
SPEAKER_01And I look at like they're just a progression of like, you know, Leonard Skinnard, black crows, like Kings of Leon. To me, that's like a trajectory. Early Kings of Leon. Only first two, only first two Kings of Leon records for me. I'm yeah, for me, it's for me, it's I love the first two. And then after that, I'm just kind of like eh. But no, first two fucking amazing. The Southern Strokes. I'll call them the Southern Strokes for the rest of my life. That's a good one that's a good one. That's a good one. I love them. I love it. So uh so yeah, so I think that's where that that's where for me it was it was Billy Idol. Billy Idol. I mean, the the the just the not no, he's only sold about 10 million albums, so the lowest uh album sales for this entire class is Billy Idol. Um, and that's worldwide. Um, not a super you he's the all he's gonna be my you don't hear people going, man, Billy Idol really turned me on to music. Um, and that and no no number one songs, not one number one song. His biggest hit was Money Money, and I think it got to number three. So, and I do understand that he's still around and he's still playing. Good for you, Billy. That's great. I just don't think he belongs. And it's it's another one of these, like he's just out there and he's still doing it, so let's just put him in. Uh no, I don't wanna so don't wanna hear it, don't want to see it, don't wanna disappoint it.
SPEAKER_00I disagree with you about Billy Idol.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00And here's why. I think when it comes to, yeah, he didn't have the numbers, but if you were to go ahead and play a playlist of the artist on here with Phil Collins, Billy Idol, Iron Maiden, Joy Division, Oasis, Side Day, Luther Vangress, Wu-Tang clan, to a general public of people at a bar where music's played constantly. I think Phil Collins, I say, you know, you might get 40% depending on the average, right? Billy Idol, you play White Wedding or Dancing with Myself or Uh Rebel Yell or Cradle of Love, most people are gonna be like, I know what that song is. Yeah, yeah. Iron Maiden, we've we understand why Iron Maiden's in, it's in for a different reason. Iron most people are gonna be like, I don't know what this is. Joy Division, yeah. Most people are gonna be like, if you play the popular songs from Joy Division Love, Level Terrace Party, I know Oasis, people are gonna probably know. Side, yeah. Uh it it's a good chance most people can be like, I don't know what this is.
SPEAKER_01Smooth operator was her biggest hit in America. I mean, she was she she was huge over overseas and worldwide, but what I'm saying is right now. No, no, no, I get you. No, I get you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Luther Vandros, I don't know of any I couldn't tell you one.
SPEAKER_01I know he did it like a Disney song, but I couldn't. I was reading through his like I was reading through his song. Like I couldn't tell you one of these songs.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and then like Wu Tang Clan, I think there might be a few, but for the most part, I think most people are gonna, you know, that are are of are of like that 21 to 35 range. It's gonna be hard to press to say that people are gonna really know who Wu Tang Clan is.
SPEAKER_01Um they they know they know who Wu they know who Wu Tang clan is, they just don't know anything that they do.
SPEAKER_00Correct.
SPEAKER_01And probably couldn't tell you, other than old Dirty Bastard, probably couldn't tell you anybody who was in, you know, you and I watch Chappelle show, and sure, we can recite the entire Wu-Tang clan because Dave would do it all the time.
SPEAKER_00But that is why my Billy Idol pushes. Billy Idol made songs that stood the test of time that are still getting played on most modern rock stations to this time. There's a lot of times you go to a concert and there's And you know what I do when they come?
SPEAKER_01I turn the channel. I change the channel. So I'm gonna fucking hear it. All right, there's gotta be a better song on another station.
SPEAKER_00Do you want to hear the fact about Billy Idol and me?
SPEAKER_01You've never met Billy Idol, have you?
SPEAKER_00No, I've never met Billy Idol. I've never met him, but when I have only karaoked six times in my life.
SPEAKER_01Okay, uh, which which Cradle of Love? White Wedding.
SPEAKER_00I think is what I the only song, and it is a first I always regret doing it. It is such a long song. But and I and I still have to look at the words because I don't even know him, but it's fun. But yeah, I think that's what it comes down to. So this is one of those artists that are gonna go in and people are gonna recognize and know I know. Yeah, and you could put that if you do Billy Idol on the wall between a Phil a Phil Collins and a Luther Vandros or a Sade, Billy Idol, um, you know, Luther Vandros Billy Idols, whatever.
SPEAKER_01I'll give you Billy Idol over Luther Vandros and Sade, but you know, I I think more people know Phil Collins than than Billy Idol, but that's not what we're but that's not, you know, what yeah, no, and that's what it's about.
SPEAKER_00If you put a playlist out of these songs on Spotify and you had them, and you had people that had to skip and you saw people that skip the songs, I think people are probably not gonna skip as many times for Billy Idol as they would for Sade, Luther Vandros, maybe even Wu Tang clan. Iron Maiding, Iron Maiden is definitely something that is acquired taste, agreed. Super influential, super what they were able to do.
SPEAKER_01Love everything about you know, do you know an Iron Maiden song?
SPEAKER_00Uh Mark of the Beast, I think is one I heard. Let's see.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, run through the run to the Run Through the Hills is like that's the one that's like the one I know. But even but they're like a band, and that I'm not, don't come for me, Iron Maiden people. But I'm just saying, like, that's not even like they're super sold tons of records, but like you don't even hear Iron Maiden on like classic rock stations. And and it kind of surprises me that you don't. I mean, I would think that because they they fit in. It could be it could be it fits in with all but I mean it fits in with all that you know all that type of music on on like a on like a classic rock station. It's just odd that you don't hear it. I mean, I don't know why, but I don't know why they don't play it, but I mean it's it's strange like like Cinderella, like you're gonna play that shit and you're not gonna play Iron Maiden, like nobody wants to hear Cinderella. I mean or maybe it's just that I live in Cincinnati, Ohio, and people here really like Cinderella. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00What's that one?
SPEAKER_01What's that?
unknownI wanna know what love is.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's uh that's Foreigner who didn't they get in last year? Oh wasn't it last year Foreigner? Uh I think we probably complain I know I complained about that. Oh no, last year was bad company. Foreigner might have been the year before.
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah, foreigner.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, foreigner was the year before. And the other thing is they're not even touring. It's it's a it's a group of guys that have paid to like license the music and they tour as Foreigner. Not one of the original members of the band is even with them. So that whole uh that whole thing.
SPEAKER_00Well, so I think we've I think we all can agree that's a problem.
Sade And Luther Vandross Arguments
SPEAKER_01But it is, it is, but but so so let's see. So we've uh Billy I uh okay. So let's let's let's talk. I know we've talked a little bit about Luther. Yep, let's talk about Sade.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01You know, um, I I do think she is, you know, she has had staying power, she's been around for a long time, influential with hip hop and RB. I you know, I get that. I'm sure she's made a lot of music that have made a lot of babies. That's great. Um, they don't that's not a statistic that they keep, but uh she sold 75 million albums worldwide. You know, she's huge, smooth operator. Everybody from the 80s knows 80s, 90s knows smooth operator. But uh and and and so this is one thing that I had thought about, especially with Luther. So I don't think Luther belongs in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It's not because he's an RB singer, I just don't think he's influential on the level that I think that he should be to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I thought, you know, is there an I said I thought RB Hall of Fame? Yes, absolutely. Is there an RB Hall of Fame? As a matter of fact, there is. It's called the National RB Hall of Fame, and he is in it. So as far as I'm concerned, Luther's covered. Um but Sade, she's British, she can't be in the National RB Hall of Fame because she's not American.
SPEAKER_00But um isn't that just fucked up?
SPEAKER_01Isn't that just it and you know, but I I still, you know, I I see I see the influence, I see, but I I think I go back to the, you know, you're gonna I mean, what has Mariah Carey done to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame people? Because putting Sade in and not her is just like just just like doing horrible things to Mariah Carey. I mean, it's like just peeing on her for no reason. I hope when she gets in.
SPEAKER_00She doesn't even fucking go.
SPEAKER_01She's like, I I kind of get the I I kind of feel like she sh yeah. I mean, there they're just it that's just like thumb in your nose at Mariah. You're just like, yeah, we're gonna put Sade in and not you. Um, and yeah, I hope she doesn't go because you know she could just take her two million dollars that she makes for her Christmas song every year, and you know, she can go do whatever she wants because Mariah doesn't need the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but no, but if she didn't but she should be in there, she should be in there. And I just want to clarify again, Anthony and I are not members of the Mariah Carey fan club. We don't we're not lambs.
SPEAKER_00We do get a lot of fucking people on TikTok that are like, you guys must be the biggest Mariah Carey fans. I can't at all. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01The only one I can the only song I can tell you by I mean I know Mariah, some Mariah songs, but that one that she does with old dirty bastard, like you know, sweet, sweet fantasy, me and Mariah go back like babies and pacifiers and all that stuff. I mean but uh yeah, we are not we are not running a Mariah Carey underground Mariah Carey fan club or anything like that.
SPEAKER_00I think for us it's just we We just recognize, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, there's the influence.
SPEAKER_00There's some bands that I don't believe are like I'm not a big fan of, but I still believe they belong in the rock and roll of fame. And the fact they keep getting overlooked is one of those things where it's like you start questioning what what you know what the hell does it take to get in? What you know and this is where I also think like this is where like all these Hall of Fames, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, NFL Hall of Fame, all these things are absolutely dumb. Because I really do feel like there's some people that that just kind of start, they're the reason why they they want like they're just so like power hungry that they are the reason why certain things aren't happening.
Musical Influence Picks And A Slog Year
SPEAKER_01That they can be like these taste makers and they can like you know, and then you know, we've talked about this before. This entire this batch of people that are getting in under musical influence.
unknownOh yeah.
SPEAKER_01How many musical influences were there this year? I mean, how many people so yeah, so there were the people that were on the list like we talked about, so Black Crows, Mariah, Jeff Buckley, who were all up for induction, Lauren Hill. None of them get in, but then some of the people that get in under musical influence weren't even on the list. And and no, and then this is no disrespect. MC Light and Queen Latifa. And I mean I Queen Latifah, okay, I I see it, you know, but then you've got like, I mean, there this year there were a lot more musical influence nomin or inductees than than previous, and that was just really surprising to me. That it just seemed to be like there are almost as many musical influence inductees as there were performance inductees.
SPEAKER_00And do you think that's because of the fact that a lot of the actual inductees are not gonna perform and they needed to fill in that void?
SPEAKER_01That's an excellent point. I didn't even think about that. Um, that's entirely possible because yeah, I just don't yeah, I I mean it could be. It it could absolutely be because I I do think and I because I do think it's gonna be a disappointing uh induction ceremony. I mean, and I like I love like the packages and where you hear about other people talk about them and and and the people that are getting in. I enjoy that kind of stuff, but I mean I think it really comes down to like the performances and and um I think it's unless they do something really interesting, I think it's lining up to be not really exciting.
SPEAKER_00No, I'd like I was excited to watch last year, and I know we watched a live, and I think a lot had to do with the white stripes um and soundgarden. I think those two really solidified us as a must watch. Um and it was it was a long watch.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's always uh yeah, it's always a a bit of a slog. This year is just gonna be hard. Hard to very, very much agree. Yeah, but I mean, yeah, the there were performances last year, I think, that we were looking forward to, and and but yeah, this year you're just and even you know, like outcast. I think we we talked about it the salt and peppa performance was awesome. Oh blue, yeah, it was crazy.
SPEAKER_00I was not expecting that at all.
SPEAKER_01Me neither, and it was so good, and uh yeah, I just oof it's just it's just shaping up to be uh just a slog, a real rough one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you know what, you know what kind of upsets me a little bit too? I don't know, we were and talking going back to like I was looking at past uh inductees and years and stuff, and I forgot Nine and Shnels got in during that year where like it was during COVID and the live stream. Yeah. It was kind of a uh it was a really shit way of like letting them get in.
SPEAKER_01I mean, but well, I was thinking about for some reason I thought about because I mean obviously last year we had the white stripes in Soundgarden, and this year I was like, you know, this would have been a nice year to have like a grunge band, uh, you know, get in one of those grunge, get in like an Alice and Chains. Like, this is a year for an Alice and Chains. Did you see the when Mopop did that Alice and Chains thing a few years ago and they had different bands doing Alice and Chains songs? Yeah, that was awesome.
SPEAKER_00It was amazing.
SPEAKER_01I thought that was really cool, and um, and that would be something that would be interesting to see, something along those lines where you have different acts doing. I think they did a good job last year with or last year with the white stripes and minus 21 pilots, minus 21 pilots, minus the 21 pilots.
SPEAKER_00Twilight Pilots was god awful.
Jeff Buckley And Other Overlooked Names
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, but I thought we're gonna be friends with Olivia Rodrigo and and Feist. Was it Neat? Yeah, Feist. I thought that was great. Um, but yeah, I I would have I would I I I see I like to I I do see these types of years as kind of like making up for lost time. I I would have loved to see like Alice and Chains or the Pixies or somebody like this, somebody that's been sitting around for a long time and you know hasn't gotten in, you know, get them in in some way, shape, or form.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Jeff Buckley pissed me off. I really think that Jeff Buckley uh deserved it. I really think Jeff Buckley deserves that that his his family and the idea of what Jeff Buckley is, he really needs his space in the Rock Roll Hall of Fame. I think that he influenced so many people, and it's sad.
SPEAKER_01I recently watched his documentary, and he if you haven't seen that documentary, watch it. It's fucking heartbreaking, and it's it's a it's a really great documentary, just in and of itself, but his story was just so just his so sad, such a sad life, but such a freaking talent. I mean, I think that people talk so much about his voices was was he was a phenomenal guitar player, oh yeah, and an insane songwriter. Uh just a great like you can put on that grace record today, and it sounds so it's it's timeless. I think it really it's timeless. You can it sounds new and different and as many times as you've heard it. Um I can't, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I will say this there's a couple artists I've written down um that I think that have been overlooked for way too long that deserve their moment in the rock and roll of fame based off of how they've influenced others and the landscape of things, and one of them fits that category that you were talking about Michael Jackson, the Phil Collins, and the Paul McCartney. Um and that is gonna be Robert Plant. I don't know why Robert Plant's been overlooked as a solo artist. I think Robert Plant has done a lot in his career as a solo artist.
SPEAKER_01That's a that's a really good point, yeah. Especially with the stuff that he's done recently with with Allison Krauss, but I mean his solo stuff and artists.
SPEAKER_00And you can't fucking tell me there ain't not a damn person that could watch this or listening that can tell me that he is not an influential uh artist that paved the way for so many solo and art artists and so many bands. Um and then I'll go through my list real quick. Uh Sticks, another band. I'm not a huge Sticks fan, but uh they had so many hits uh on the same level as almost Billy Idol in the sense that they have music out there that people know that are played out all the time. I don't know why they're getting overlooked. Um Lenny Kravitz is someone that is um an amazing singer-songer, uh guitar player, instrument. I mean, you know, he just did a lot for music, especially in the 90s going to 2000s. Um Motorhead's another one that was another band similar into the idea of that Iron Maiden, where they're not radio played, but they were something that they were able to create a sound in a way that music was being played that really opened the doors for so many other bands to create music because of what Motorhead was supposed to be able to do. The Smiths is another band that I think of when you look at it from the 80s, yeah, the music that they created, what they were able to accomplish, the longevity of that music, how it's played out, the mu movies that it's been a part of, the soundtracks, everything. That's another one.
SPEAKER_01Um, Devo is another one that Devo is Devo is high, high on my list. I love I love you know, they're from they're from Ohio, you know, but yeah, Devo, Devo, Devo. And just yeah, they're still around, but the influence I think is is I mean, influence you can see them in bands like Primus and Oh yeah, Pussifer and stuff like that. But yeah, Devo is just uh it's way overdue for Devo.
SPEAKER_00And then one last one I have on the list that this is an artist I'm not even a fan of. I don't even care about. And he's not really rock and roll. And the idea that he's not a rebellious artist, he's not really uh fits a genre that, but he is a country artist that has really had chart-topping hits his entire career. He was able to do things with career changes when he played different personalities.
SPEAKER_01Oh, can I guess?
SPEAKER_00Go ahead. Garth Brooks a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_01And you know what? So I have seen Garth Brooks live, uh, and I don't even like that music. He is fantastic, he is a a heck of a showman. I would call him the country Bruce Springsteen. Oh, that's because because he is yeah, he he's like, he's like a uh he's it's like a religious like revival thing going on. I mean, yeah, I mean, even with the all that, you know, Chris was it, Chris Gaines crap.
SPEAKER_00I don't know what the hell it was. It was like it was emo, yeah, emo Garth Brooks.
SPEAKER_01He's a song, great songwriter, great performer, you know, yeah, yeah. Hell of a show.
SPEAKER_00How many weddings have you gone to where you put your arm around the buddy next to you? Might be a little tipsy, you might not be, but then Friends in Low Places, yeah. There you go. Everyone thinks they can sing that song. Everyone just knows the chorus. Nobody knows what the fuck is saying.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, and so there's like so when I saw him, I saw him in the I think probably it was probably the mid to late 90s. There's like a third chorus to that song, or there a third verse to low play had no idea what it was, and and all these people, all the everybody knew the words, and I'm like, I don't know what you're singing, but yeah, there's like a a third verse to low places, and yeah, it just like you could sing it all night long, but uh yeah, I don't I I mean and then uh who knows if people would be like, you know, oh it's country and blah blah blah blah. You know, uh you know what I say to them?
SPEAKER_00Fuck you.
SPEAKER_01That's yeah, I mean Garth Brooks I I also just a huge, he was a huge star, crazy influential. I mean, probably influenced an entire generation of country performers. I mean, look at he I look at I think he probably a huge influence on Taylor Swift, just with you know her stuff and and and kind of you know doing the country and then doing the pop and and being able to cross over and kind of straddle the lines and not have to be like a you know just a straight up country artist, absolutely.
unknownI agree.
SPEAKER_01But I would love to see like I would love to see Alice and Chains and you know, I I like we said Alice and Chains, the Pixies, uh Devo. Um are the cars in? I love the cars.
SPEAKER_00I'll find out.
SPEAKER_01But you know but but yeah, and we've got it there are there are gonna be, you know, there's nineties. bands that we can that we can yeah but there are nineties bands that are definitely I think I think we're getting to the point where all of the like big 90s bands are are are are just are just about in.
SPEAKER_00I think the House and Chains is probably one of the last ones that you're just like Smash and Pumpkins is not in I have issues with I know I know I know I know but it's you gotta think about how they influence other artists the songs how they carried through there's so I don't know I don't know if they did influence other artists as much as we think they did.
SPEAKER_01Let's let me do a goggle search when it comes to okay yeah although I gotta I gotta admit I was listening to Gish I've listened to Gish a couple times recently and I Gish and and siamese dream to me are just freaking amazing but you know Billy kind of rubs me the wrong way a little bit but Okay here we go but he's a okay bands that have said they were influenced by Smash and Pumpkins in an interview Silver Sun pickups my chemical romance Deftones Muse Fallout Boy Paramour and a band called Hum Chavelle Panic at the disco Jimmy World I think I've said them all. Yep did you say a band called Hum? Hum you don't know Hum? I may I maybe I don't I maybe I don't oh you gotta listen to Hum. They did this song called Stars it was they were like you know post grunge kinda okay they're fun though they're freaking amazing their first two records are great but yeah they were they were anytime you I see something on TikTok where they're like name a band that you think should have been bigger than they were hum Hum should have been I thought they should have been like freaking huge but adding it to this to listen nerdy nerdy math rock kind of stuff.
Women Fronted Rock Surge Right Now
SPEAKER_00We'll have to we'll have to I'll have to dig deep into that now I have a couple talking points I want to do before we get to the end of the show. A couple things uh one of them is uh we're gonna talk about I I do see and we were this kind of goes back to your original point this in the beginning of the show when you were talking about posters and this new wave of of of how things are listened to and diverge and this new wave of fans coming through what they're listening to. One thing that I have realized recently is this huge in increase in female lead singers in the alternative rock world and even I saw a band an artist this weekend called CMAT I'm not sure if you're familiar with her she is uh a female singer from Ireland um she's she tours as Euro country um I don't know if I'd say that it's it's more it's poppy rock I don't know it's it was so much fun well I had a blast but uh you saw her live oh yeah I saw uh this uh Brad and uh his wife Sam came out this weekend for my birthday and we went oh cool uh to go see her in Lawrence and it was it was fantastic it was it was a fun show fun show but there are artists right now like um wet leg Lambrini girls Olivia Rodrigo uh chaperon power more um AV Williams oh I I mean uh mannequin pussy so many different artists that are really uh leading this Amil and the sniffers oh uh yeah Wolf Alice I mean this so many of these amazing women led artists that are really first of all for me once again uh having a daughter that plays music uh I want her to be able to see that on stage I've said that so many times it's important whether it's music she likes or she doesn't like I just want her to see a presence of that but when you looked at this past weekends or the last couple weekends Coachella's and seen these artists that really just really stood out with a lot of female artists that really took the damn stage wet leg's performance at Coachella was monumentally amazing. What she was able to accomplish and how she handled the stage took that microphone and just had people on the tit that the edge of their feet the entire thing it just shows what is so amazing with this this rejuvenation of rock and like alternative music that is really just playing popular right now.
SPEAKER_01It's so popular right now the evolution of of wet leg from their first the the like the aesthetics of their first record which was kind of like this cottage core thing to this second record the aesthetics of the second record with you know uh is it Rihanna is is her first name the lead singer just with she's so been so more like powerful and it's just been a it's powerful and aggressive and just a complete like 180 from the first record aesthetics which were like I said it was like cottage core and all kinds of stuff really interesting I just think really interesting the songs are still great um but yeah I really like this kind of like this like female power kind of like a uh an extension of like the riot girl thing I think is really really interesting with what uh they've done and especially you know her performance style is is really been cool I thought uh I thought Sabrina Carpenter's like that was cool that was just really you know all the the huge production and all that stuff I thought that that was great um it look it was fun she's got good songs I mean she's a really great performer so I thought that that was really cool um but yeah I think it's really interesting to see and you've got like you know bikini kill is still touring they're they're touring in the fall um it's really cool to see um a lot more you know female fronted and female um centric bands out there especially for like just you know for young women and and just just to see different you know perspectives out there it's really really cool and it and it's definitely it's definitely different than than Riot Girl but it's really interesting the way it's these different acts are doing it their own way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I just think we're really heading into a new golden era for like women fronted bands and how they're really taking a stand and people are listening and I really can enjoy that.
SPEAKER_01It reminds me kind of like the whole Lilith Fair thing and and and and Sarah McLaughlin and all that stuff and and um it'd be really cool if they did like some sort of a like a female package tour type of a thing. That would be really cool.
SPEAKER_00But I mean you've got like like you said mannequin pussy they're opening up for for foo fighters and you know a lot of different bands are uh getting a lot a lot of female led bands are are getting a lot of uh a lot of attention a lot of exposure yeah it's great I mean coach like I said coachella was a really big eye opener now I will there's another thing when I want to talk about Coachella is you know a lot of artists will have a moment when it comes to a festival Jimi Hendricks at Woodstock playing the you know Star Spangled Banger wake star spangled banner waking people up um you know when you look at like even Woodstock 99 you know fucking uh burning it down with uh Renachili Peppers yeah there's always these moments and one of them that always stuck out to me was in 1994 when 9 inch nails came out in the mud and performed what was this this welcome to mainstream listen to me all eyes on me absolutely that really defined a different push for what 9 inch nails would become because they were this was coming right on the heels of them touring with David Bowie this was right on the heels of them really starting to be more experimental in their music it really was this huge like moment for Trent Reservoir.
SPEAKER_01It was like this coming out party it was this and and the whole thing with the just all of the all of the optics with the mud and and all that stuff and how they just you know it that's that to me is like and I've seen I'm fortunate to have seen nine inch nails several times but in in in that era but to but that that's like the quintessential nine inch nails performance I think especially you know that 94 era um now you've got Trent and he's all skinny and they're all covered in mud and they're smashing shit on stage and running into each other. It's just like it's like this idea of controlled chaos and and I think you're I think I know where you're going but what he did with you know uh nine inch noise at at Coachella it's like a it's like it's kind of the same thing.
SPEAKER_00It's this it's this like setting the stage for what the next evolution of like nine inch nails um you know could become well it's interesting to me in the sense that it's hard to get one moment right like everyone every you might go to a con a coach a festival like wow that was fantastic that was a good show and but after a while it's it it kind of fades into it was just a festival show right 1994 Woodstock Nine Inch Nails stole that show. I mean I don't remember many of the other things that happened in 1994 Woodstock now Coachella you know it came out you know Boys Noise was going to be performing with Nine Inch Nails I got to see the uh the the first and second leg of the Peel it back tour um and it was amazing. It was probably one of the best live experiences visually stunning. It was just something out of this world it was definitely a rejuvenate a rejuvenation for Trent Reznor based off of what Boys Noise was able supposed to do and really bringing in something new seeing him remix the songs on stage with Trent and Atticus just being it was just something different. I didn't know what this was going to be at um at Coachella and I was excited for it because I'm like oh it might be like they did on the small stage where they come out the fact they had it was almost like watching a Broadway show exactly with Trent Reznor's wife in this like and and Trent Reznor and Boys Noise and Atticus Stone in this pyramid thing and these people it looked like a spaceship and then people were crawling around it it made me think of like like 2001 a Space Odyssey and like Stanley Kubrick and and all this shit and and just the cool music going on I mean they're playing these and that they were going back to like like uh songs like Heresy and songs from you know the downward spiral that they didn't even really play live back then.
SPEAKER_01I mean heresy wasn't ever on set list. No. But to see those songs live again and be remixed and and to sound so good and to see him you know singing them with such you know passion and it was really really I was excited it me I mean other than other than Jack White the first weekend at Coachella like which and Jack's always freaking crazy but that but yeah those those boys noise uh the nine inch noise sets were just unreal so and that they were so and that they that they had toured with boys noise like you said for these two you know these two legs of of the PL at back tour and that this was completely different. Yeah completely different yep and that to me was like that was like a huge statement from Trent like this is something like we're doing something completely different.
SPEAKER_00And he'll never do it again. I yeah I will tell you when they did the inter he had it he did his first show the next day Olivia Rodrigo was interviewed and said something like this was the best concert I've seen in my lifetime and then um said I cannot wait till they tour with it. And then Trent Reznor came out I think it was Spin Magazine interviewed both of them and he's like no this is oh we're only doing this for these two weekends we're this is not something we're gonna tour with he said I'm going into the studio the Monday after Coachella's over and we're gonna be reworking on the new album and figuring things out from there. I looked into a fucking flight to go to California after watching I'm not fucking with I'm dead serious. Yeah the only thing that held me back was it wasn't the cost of flight or the cost of ticket it was I knew for a fact there was gonna be more people going to that stage and it was going to be a nightmare. And they did say that they had to uh pull up the tarps on the side because it was like in an enclosure because there was too many people trying to get to watch that uh that set the the set and it was it was absolutely amazing. Um and I really it was really cool. Yeah yeah but it's it is rare to have something that is necessarily this this I would say in five years time people are going to look back at this and it's gonna be this set will be what stands out. People I I think a lot of things are forgettable.
SPEAKER_01I think they're fun in the moment the fun fun in the time yeah no no I think that I think that what I of what I saw of Coachella this was like this was the moment like this was what this was the moment of both of those weekends it was just something that you and and for them to say that they're not going to do it again that makes it even more special I think you're just like yeah and um just what I it's so it's so cool to see Trent you know still doing this stuff I mean still doing what he loves to do and doing it incredibly well yeah um and know that he's like you know he's clean and he's sober and he's not you know I mean we could have Trent Reznor could easily not be here right now. So I mean yeah exactly so um we should all be you know very fortunate that we get to see this because it's a really really cool um evolution of of nine inch nails and of just him as an artist because he just it it can he do anything that's I mean does he do anything bad like seriously I mean he does film scores and and all these you know and all these things it's just yeah it's it's really great to see him um just to see him evolve and and kind of blossom as an artist and keep and to keep changing and keeping things fresh.
SPEAKER_00Agreed. Yeah I will say this this is what brings me to tie into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I think that there are moments to define the idea of what rock and roll is I think that the Woodstock 94 performance that Nyan Schnell did at Woodstock is a moment that should be almost have its own little area at the Rock and Hall of Fame. I think having um new radicals play at uh Joe Biden was it Joe Biden or Obama I think it might have been Obama play you know uh you uh get what you get yeah Bruce Springsteen you know playing after 9-11 uh you know there's so many moments that stick out as defining moments in the history of music and rock and roll that I think are more important than an artist getting in per se because I think sometimes it's a moment that can push someone there could be a kid on a stool or on a couch watching that 90 1994 Woodstock moment and that was the moment he realized he wanted to be a musician or there might be a song or a moment that ties you to a moment in time that was important to the uh evolution of American history or world history and stuff like that. And I think that that makes sense to be in in as an inductee or in a moment and stuff like that. I know it sounds silly but I do think that there are moments in time that are more defining than actual artists performing. And I think like moments like like I said 1994 Woodstock that always sticks to me is something that you know will always be around. Jimi Hendrix playing you know the Star Spangled banner when you know he was late to Woodstock to wake everybody up is something that really should be around.
Rapid Fire Takes And Final Wrap
SPEAKER_01Well it's it's it's it's something that's like it's it's kind of taken on a life of its own. Yeah. And it's more than just kind of like that moment. Obviously the background of of of Jimmy and and the Star Spangled banner was obviously the Vietnam War and and and and you know when he played the guitar at some points people thought thought it sounded like gunfire or air or airplanes flying and things like that. And uh I think you know you look at you look at you know Woodstock 94 and the and and the nine inch nails performance I mean there was a lot of there was a lot of anger and there was a lot of I think obviously where the it was the 90s there was angst you know we were that was what we were all about but uh and it was just about kind of I think that performance was kind of vicariously we could get that angst out by watching you know them just trash everything and still play this really great music and and really um kind of embody that that anger and angst of of the 90s um and then kind of give it back to us. It's a really but it is it it's a really I mean I watch that performance every couple of months just kind of regularly because I just it's just I remember watching it on you know TV I I did the pay-per-view and all that shit that's right yeah watched nine inch nails on the pay-per-view but uh but yeah it just it was one of those things it's it's like indelible it's just like you can't it's kind of like burned on your brain it's like the first time I saw Pearl Jam on Saturday Night Live and I was just like I gotta get that record. And we don't have a lot of those I think that those those those moments now are kind of few and far between because everything seems so you know everything seems so accessible. Yeah it's like you don't see a lot of those things um and we're so connected you know we're so connected to a lot of the stuff that's going on that you kind of don't have those moments but I think you're right I think that that that performance at Coachella is definitely kind of one of those moments it's just kind of this defining defining moment uh that we'll look back on and be like wow that was a really cool you know change of direction for for nine inch nails and and who knows what they'll become after that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00All right we're gonna go into a rapid fire question for you you ready?
SPEAKER_01This is where I get in trouble but yeah go ahead.
SPEAKER_00Okay and you gotta be quick with it. No no no long answers just quick answers no thinking no thinking the most deserving 2026 nominee that ended up being an inductee for the Rock Hall of Fame was Iron Maiden biggest snub ever in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as it goes Mariah Carey Mariah Carey gets in next year yes or no most rock and roll artist alive right now what the most rock and roll artist oh the most rock and roll artist alive right now Jack White Jack White best Coachella performance of the let since Coachella came out since Coachella came out um I'm gonna go uh Rage Against the Machine Ooh good one most overrated hall rock and roll hall of fame inductee bad company female artists dominating over the next decade is oh the next decade wow um you know what I don't even know if we've seen her yet I think there could be somebody yeah that we haven't even seen yet hey I lie dig it and then do you think there'll be a future hall of famer under the age of 35 oh under the age of 35 um well it can't be Taylor Swift because she's already double you would have to have started in the music industry at 10 years old oh I'm gonna say no okay I only the only one I can think of is Molly Cyrus which would have been a all right so let's just our final takedown so the rock and roll hall of fame still matters because it sparks debate it's gonna bring up conversations it's what really matters when it comes to this this is why we've been doing this show for fucking five years.
SPEAKER_01This is why we continue doing these we even though we don't do shows consistently which I'd like to do more of we always make sure we have our yearly rock and roll hall of fame bitching uh match I love to talk about the rock hall it's so much fun and my wife hates to hear me go on and on about it. So I Anthony will listen. That's right I'm always here that's right uh the Rock J so I saw the Michael Jackson movie this weekend. Oh yes thoughts it wasn't bad actually for for what it was I mean I'm not watching it for like factual stuff but um for what it was I thought Jafar Jackson who plays Michael Jackson was fantastic I thought he was really it was really a great performance I don't think it was a um he really embodied Michael Jackson with the the voice was fantastic the mannerisms he had the whole thing down I thought it was more of an embodiment of Michael Jackson than a you know than an impersonation okay um and it made me think about how much how much those Michael Jackson songs man they just how much they were like everywhere I mean Michael Jackson was like the biggest star in the world yeah and you know thriller and those records and those those songs were just all over the place. So I mean it was it was all right it was it wasn't terrible I was I didn't have super high expectations but I really enjoyed it. Oh all right but then we went to see my son and I went to see Project Hail Mary have you seen that I'm see so okay I am working in Des Moines Iowa tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00And I don't know if you follow along with my random I know that you do like to go to the movies. Oh I love going to old movie theaters and there is um there's an art house in Des Moines Iowa um that was uh just recently renovated it's beautiful it's a 25 seater uh so I have got tickets to go see Project Hail Mary tomorrow um in this in this thing so I'm really excited about seeing that oh so good it was great okay five stars it was awesome oh there's there's takes some tissues oh god are you a crier in movies? I am a crier at everything I okay TikTok knows like For some reason, like they're going to fuck with me. Like, I I oh god, I cry all the time. Is it animal videos, or is it like you know, stuff with like dads and daughters, dads and daughters, yeah, um, an art like someone like performing for the first time and getting recognized, like you know, soldiers coming home will get me extra time. Just so much. I don't know. I just you know, I think the older I get, the more I'm rooting for other people to do so well. I think I felt growing up, I was always like, I gotta be better than someone, or I gotta do better than this person, or I gotta be, I get to get along, I gotta be the top person and stuff. Yeah, yeah. The older the older I get, the more I'm just like, man, I just want to see more people succeed. Like I just want more for other people. And I think that that is when you like you're just happy to see other people happy and or doing well. And um, yeah, I just I I cry. I mean, I get you know, I don't know. It's I can get to a whole speech, but yeah, no, I cry.
SPEAKER_01Take some tissues.
SPEAKER_00I will take tissues, and thank you for or my or I'll just or my sleeve of my just yeah, just yeah, yeah, something to wipe yourself on.
SPEAKER_01I'll come out.
SPEAKER_00I I will say this. There was there isn't just there's one movie in particular um that I remember that I don't recall ever seeing so many people walking out of the theater just bawling, and it was that Will Smith movie um where he was knew he was dying and he wanted to donate all of his body parts to certain people, so he was meeting all the people he was donating his body parts to. And then Pursuit of Happiness. Is that no Pursuit of Happiness is when he was the lawyer? Uh okay, okay. Where's what's the Will Smith movie? Uh donates body parts. Donates organs. Let's see. Uh Seven Pounds. Oh, okay. It came out in 2008. I mean, I don't I mean, I was like, I was like trying to hold it all together. It is, it is like, it is, you know, I it is that's that is one where I've only watched it once. It's almost like Marley and me. I Marley and me is another one where I'm like, I like even thinking about it, like gets me emotional. Like, ah, yeah, that's a one you can only watch that movie once. You like people who watch that movie more than once are just torturing themselves.
SPEAKER_01Yes, exactly. Yeah, I know what you mean.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's just brutal. But yeah, so I I'm I'll I'll go to that. So I'm looking forward to eating some uh decent popcorn and doing that working in Des Moines, and then uh yeah, it should be uh halfway decent time. But we'll have to figure out the next list and uh get this get this rolling.
SPEAKER_01So absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Um there will be more show announcements coming up. Uh I do know that let's talk uh vinyl. Well, there will be an episode next week. Uh there will be another show announcement for a new show coming out in a few days. Uh, and then we'll just be kind of getting back into it. And I think what we're gonna do with Touring Fan Live, we'll continue doing what we're doing now. We'll run shows all the way through the month of December, and then we'll take off from January through March. Uh, because it is just taxing. There's just so much that gets involved into uh doing these shows, and I just had to uh take a break from it because it was just it was it was a lot. But I am always so glad to do this, especially with you, Brian. I've I it is crazy to think that I have done podcasts with you in some sort of sense. Uh the first time you ran any of my podcasts was back in 2018 when you did my first episode of a podcast ever. You were my first guest of any show when we did I did Tap Time with Anthony, and you came on and we talked posters, uh posters. And it is crazy to me to think that was eight years ago. No, yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_01It's it's where does the time go? It it's too quick.
SPEAKER_00That's when you said your daughter is graduating high school.
SPEAKER_01It's like god college. College, oh gosh, oh my god, yeah. But it's wild.
SPEAKER_00It is, it is, it is. I think the one thing um it's like you know, you can't the one thing that all that makes us human is that like we all don't realize how quickly time goes by, and it's you want to buy more time of it, but nobody can, so you have to appreciate the moment you're in. And uh yeah, it's it's kind of like what is it? What did Andy say in the office? Like, I wish I knew when the good times were going on so I can appreciate them more, like that I was living in the good times at that time. So it's fucking crazy. But anyway, it is I am excited. I think so. I think we'll look forward to the next rock and roll fame. Uh, send me some messages of what you want to do for the uh the next uh episode. But until then, um, anything else you want to say before we bounce?
SPEAKER_01No. Thanks everybody for listening.
SPEAKER_00Appreciate it. Until next time, this is another unnecessary list.