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Another Unnecessary List - Behind the Music: Exploring the World's Most Influential Music Documentaries
Grab your headphones and settle in as we dissect Rolling Stone's controversial list of the Top 70 Music Documentaries of all time. What starts as a critical examination quickly transforms into a passionate debate about what truly makes a music documentary great.
The disconnect becomes apparent immediately: Is Rolling Stone's list actually about documentaries, or is it just another way to celebrate their favorite musicians? We unpack how concert films are fundamentally different from true music documentaries, yet Rolling Stone lumps them together without clear criteria. The result? A list that favors established names over genuine documentary excellence.
From Metallica's raw vulnerability in "Some Kind of Monster" to the manufactured mythology of "Montage of Heck," we analyze why some films reveal authentic truths while others reinforce carefully constructed images. When Bob Dylan's "Don't Look Back" takes the #1 spot, we ask the uncomfortable question: is this truly the pinnacle of music documentary filmmaking, or just Rolling Stone paying homage to their perennial favorite?
The conversation extends beyond critique as we share our own must-see music documentaries that offer genuine insight into artists, their creative processes, and the cultural moments they inhabited. From "Pearl Jam 20" to lesser-known gems like "Dennis and Lois" and "The Fearless Freaks," we champion films that balance musical performance with human storytelling.
Whether you're a documentary enthusiast or a music lover seeking deeper connections with your favorite artists, this episode will transform how you view the intersection of music and filmmaking. The greatest music documentaries transcend fandom—they should reveal something universal about creativity, human relationships, and the artistic struggle that resonates with any thoughtful viewer.
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I used to love the rain. I thought I heard you say Strange days, they're beneath the way. I used to love the sunlight on your face, outside the frames, inside a memory, all the misfortunes Still inside your head and good evening and welcome to another episode Of another Unnecessary List.
Speaker 2:We are entering the show With friend of Touring Fan Live Richard Suvarood's latest single, used to Love the Rain, which is I sing a banger. I don't know what the kids say nowadays, I continue to use the words From my youth I a banger. I don't know what the kids say nowadays, I continue to use the words from my youth. I think banger's a good one. He's got a hypnotic voice. Are you familiar with Richard?
Speaker 3:I'm not no, but that is very hypnotic.
Speaker 2:Oh, richard Suvarud is a drummer A lot of history on the West Coast. He was the fill-in drummer for Pearl Jam when Matt Cameron got COVID during the COVID shows, which has become a new thing. Now People are saying they're breaking up concerts from like, hey, these were during the COVID shows, these were COVID shows.
Speaker 2:Interesting, but Richard filled in there. He's had a lot of success with his solo career. He's a fantastic musician, known for his drumming. So, yeah, just a fan, been a friend of the show. He's done a lot for me and, uh, some of the non-profit work I've done. So, um, new single definitely check it out. It's on all streaming platforms spotify, itunes, you name it. You could find it there. You can go there, go to his website. It's got some singles and things for you to purchase vinyl. So if that's your thing, check it out.
Speaker 2:Let's turn down because we have a lot to discuss tonight, a lot. How are you? How have you been, anthony? So I am nervous. I'm not going to lie to you, I'm really nervous.
Speaker 2:So this Saturday is the first half a marathon that I'm running that I'm doing seven over two and a half months. Wow, half a marathon that I'm running, that I'm doing seven over two and a half months. And, um, I was about two races last year away from being a pre-qualifier to be able to run the Boston marathon, which is which is my dream, um, but I got into that car accident, uh, last year, and the race that I had to run in October to get into that to be basically a pre-qualifier. It basically allows you to run um with some charities and things of that nature. It got me out of it so I had to like restart the whole process, gotcha. But like I'm motivated to do it, you getting there, I don't know, I'm really. I mean like I feel you feeling good.
Speaker 2:I don't know, man, I, you know saturday is the hardest one of all seven. So it's like you're starting on the hardest and you go down, um, I know, like the. So I'll be 40 next month. So that puts me in a different class, qualifier class. So I don't know if I've ever told you this, but like I'm in the qualifier, like they call me. It's the. Um, oh, it's uh, it's a horse name. God, I forgot what it's called now um, no, I'm in the.
Speaker 2:Clydesdale class when they told me that it's like are you telling me like I'm a beautiful horse or I'm just a fat ass? So I'm not exactly sure how that fucking works, but um, so yeah, it's nerve-wracking. Um, I, I ran, I ran a half last week to see how my body would handle it. And I did, my body handled it, but my time wasn't there because I just had a lot of setbacks over the last few months, like just getting older.
Speaker 2:Being in the accident, my body didn't heal up as fast as I was hoping, but yeah, so I have a half a marathon. I have my first, three or every other week, and then I have half and I two weeks off, and then I do three in a row, and then I have two weeks off and then I have my last one.
Speaker 2:And then if my times average out, which this Saturday I have to run, I can't be any slower than two and a half hours, which I feel like I can do. I feel confident that I can do that. It's going to be tough, it's going to be cutting real close, um. I feel confident that I can do that. It's going to be tough, it's going to be cutting real close, um, but if I do that then the restroom should be pretty, fairly easy to accomplish the times, cause they're more flat. This is really hilly and then, if I get those, then I'll be able to get into this qualifying, my qual, my prequalifier, which would be in Nashville, tennessee, which is in October, and if I run that race then I can apply to be in these. But yeah, I can apply to be in these. But yeah, my dream's always been to run the Boston Marathon, so we'll see Fingers crossed Well best of luck.
Speaker 3:I hope it all works. I know I have a lot of respect for that. I've talked many times in other areas about how I would never run a marathon. I don't have the skill or the desire to do it, but I have a lot of respect for people that do.
Speaker 3:The Flying Pig Marathon actually goes right by our house every year and we go out and watch people run and, uh, it's really amazing and I I think it's great and I know that it's one thing about myself that I will never have a desire to do, so I respect the people that do do that kind of stuff, so best of luck.
Speaker 2:Well, I appreciate that. You know, the one thing that I always loved about the Boston marathon in general was the when I lived up in Boston, um, and I watched the Boston marathon like I remember I the one year I watched it. It was like the beginning, I w I love watching the people finishing first and I was like wow, that's really impressive and I, the person like next to me, was like you think that's impressive?
Speaker 2:wait five hours come back when those people finish because you want to see people that really this means something to them look at the people that that are struggling to finish that. This is, this is what's led up to that right like that is it's really true.
Speaker 3:So our, our houses, we are like at the corner of um, almost mile 17 of the Flying Pig in Cincinnati. You get out there and people will set up and we get out there around 6 in the morning. That's when you'll see the leaders coming through. If you're out there around 8, 9, 10, and we actually live at the top of this little tiny hill After 17 miles, there's no such thing as a tiny hill and you see the people fighting their way up that hill to finish, those are the people that really, I mean they're working hard. I mean you see these people at the beginning, man, they just fly up that hill and they are on their way to you know, three hour times for the whole marathon. But yeah, those people in the middle of the pack are really working hard, and god bless, because it's not my thing you know, I, I've, I've, never was an athlete, my life, my entire life like I never was never my thing.
Speaker 2:I tried a couple things cross country I did in, uh, middle school and I really enjoyed that process of like running through the woods and um and like running in general, but I feel as though running is the one thing that I can do where it's just me versus me, like a lot of people look at like the person in front of you, the person behind you, but like this is truly me versus me. Like because nobody is there's, like I'm never gonna it's a solo thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a. It's a solo thing and it's about you know. I think it's really about challenging yourself to what you can. You know what you can accomplish, so I think that's really impressive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's yeah. So I'm nervous. So that's this, that's a Saturday, and then. But and then next week I have Jack White three days in a row, which I'm really excited about, so that should be awesome, that'll be great. Yeah, I can't wait I can't wait. I know, I just uh, you know, we'll see what the posters hold for, uh, for those.
Speaker 3:So I'm interested to see what the yeah, I'm interested to see what they've got. Uh, you know, being, you know, working with them on on some stuff. Uh, interested to see who they've got. Uh, I really liked what I've seen from a really interesting the stuff from France and then, uh, some of the stuff from the Tokyo shows. They've been a little bit different than what they've done in the past, so I thought they've been really I thought they've been pretty cool yeah, because I mean the New York shows were pretty pretty on the money of what you'd expect from Jack White um and I I felt like even the ones he was doing, like the pop-ups, like those, were pretty much like you knew, like they were, they were typical Jack White.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, so you know, but me personally, like I've, I've have, I've quite a few, I've been to quite a few jack white shows, have a lot of his posters up, my favorite one, which is literally right next to me on the right, I don't know, let me see if I can turn the camera real quick. It is like people hate this. I don't, let me see if I can pull this down, but it's this random, like ghoulish thing that says jack white with the starlight and it has like 30 characters.
Speaker 3:It's different. It's a different thing. They do try to do different things and I think they do experiment a little bit, which is kind of nice. I think they try to keep things regional and also with different countries. I thought the French ones were really interesting. I thought the way that they played on some of the French art was really cool. So definitely excited to see what they come up with.
Speaker 2:And what I really liked, too, was when they're using artists you don't know about that. You can. It's like a movie, when people talk about something and then you look into it and you find an actor you've never heard of and you then, you dig into their other work to see what else you like of theirs. I felt like with a lot of Jack White's posters this year. I was really digging into it. I was like, wow, let's see what else they've done.
Speaker 3:It was interesting especially when they're using French artists or artists from Japan. It's really cool to see that, because it opens our eyes to more of what's going on.
Speaker 2:I agree, I agree, and you, being an artist, I think you can truly appreciate the fact that art is different in different countries. Just the way you brought up, what you're being inspired by, it's just different. So it's always really cool to kind of see, like, how those artists are pulling from where they were raised and where they're where they're living, and how that's being brought into the style of artwork. That's always fascinating to me.
Speaker 3:Well, I also think, without you know, something like gig posterscom, which you know. Rest in peace, gig posters. But we don't. We don't get to see a lot of um of artists from other parts of the world unless they start getting big and start. So it's, it's nice to see um different styles and different artists from other places, when I mean cause, not everybody gets to tour in France and everybody gets to tour in Tokyo, so when you get an artist like Jack White, it's really cool to see them uh, utilizing that talent that's over there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think the crazy thing too is like you made a great point about like a gig posterscom Like there's not, like you had you had. Then you had espresso beans pop up which they've kind of died off, and then you had collections which they went from like acknowledging artists to like kind of creating their own posters and doing their own things.
Speaker 2:So that's changed a lot in how that works but there's not a really good platform, like there used to be, of like exposing artists and being able to see their collections in a way that everything's put together.
Speaker 3:Have you been on Poster.
Speaker 2:No, I haven't.
Speaker 3:Are you there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I froze a little bit. Posterdropscom they're good. I'd say they were like Collections was maybe like 10 years ago. They've got a good system. So far I've been putting stuff up on there. The thing about gig posters is that it was more driven by the artists and the others were more driven by collectors and the collector's site. There was a lot more exposure to different types of art and different styles of gig poster artists back in the gig poster days. So you know big ups to Clay and all the people that we knew from gigpostercom days.
Speaker 2:Well, how have you been, Brian?
Speaker 3:I'm doing good Finishing up some posters. I just X is doing a couple shows out west in April so I did a couple posters for those shows in Tacoma, in Portland and I've got a local show. A local friend of mine who's in the arts community here is putting on a show in honor of the rap artist, mf Doom. So we've got about 50 artists that are doing MF Doom inspired work and I just finished off my poster. That's going to be a short run of about 25 that I'll be doing some doodles on some things, doodles on some things, but I've set that off to the printer and then just finishing up the Jack White poster that will be for one of the shows in May. Very busy drawing lots of things.
Speaker 3:And exciting and wild drawing, listening to documentaries that we will be talking about tonight.
Speaker 2:It is interesting. And it's funny because I want to talk about this too before we get into this list a little bit, because you and me had kind of a text and I think we both agreed on this that like. First of all, I think our hatred for Rolling Stone magazine grew drastically after this list, like I I agree, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because, for a publishing company that claims to be ahead of the curve when it comes to music and all these things, they kind of muddied this list down, because when I think of a documentary, I think of learning something, being educated about something, kind of going behind the scenes but also having narrative behind it and things of that nature, also having narrative behind it and things of that nature.
Speaker 2:So when I think of music documentary. There is music documentaries on this list, but then there's like concert films on this, which is more of like watching a concert. You might have where it's 80% concert, maybe a couple of talking parts, but you're not learning anything. Yeah, I think I agree.
Speaker 3:I think that one of the big delineations and the big delineations in this list is the concert film versus the music documentary, and I think that there's an argument to be made. So I think there's not a clear delineation in this list. So it is a combination of both. I think you could easily say the top 20 concert films of all time and the top 20 music documentaries of all time. So what we're talking about here and I think that this is something going back to our general overall criticism of Rolling Stone is they don't really have a really good they don't really have good basis for their lists. It's very open. They're not very clear on what the intent of the list is and what the criteria for what is included on the list. So that and I think that we're going to talk about that a little bit more as we get into this but we see these same issues cropping up, um, particularly with this list as well um, just a couple of quick things to point out ahead of time. So this is this list is top 70 documentary music documentaries was done in 2021.
Speaker 3:After doing some digging online, I was able to find this list was originally done in 2014 by Rolling Stone and at that point there were only 40 documentaries on the list. So you'd think, oh, wow, it's been you know seven years. There's going to be a whole bunch of you know seven years time. There's going to be a lot of documentaries that are released and be added to this list. Oh, but that is not the case. We only have about 10 new documentaries that have been added to this list that were made between 2014 and 2021, which leaves us 20 documentaries that already existed, that were not on the previous list, that are just put into this list. To beef it up Now I I will, uh, I'll share with Anthony um the the link to cause. You gotta look really close to find the, the original article, which is actually on Rolling Stone India.
Speaker 4:So I'll I'll send. You have to share the link.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh no, there's no payroll no paywall but I will share the link with Anthony so we can get it up there and then you can look at it and see. We'll talk about some of the discrepancies, but you'll see what we're talking about.
Speaker 2:as far as you know these major differences- Just send it to my in that Facebook group chat.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I will so. And then we're also talking about in that Facebook group chat. Yeah, I will. The writers for the 2014 list and the 2021 list are mostly the same. There have been a few more added for 2021. Let's be honest, it's Rolling Stones. The majority of them are all white guys. We couldn't get a female on the list to help us discuss these things. There are a couple men of color, but it's it's all dudes and, uh, it's all dudes and I'd say they're probably in there, you know, let's say, forties to fifties, so in our age bracket.
Speaker 3:So, um, that'll be interesting, I think rising based off this list it is surprising based on well, here's so not to not to give you too many spoilers on the 2014 list. So just looking at the top 10 from 2014 to 21, the top four movies are exactly the same, oh Jesus. So one through four, and both on both lists are do not change. And then between five and 10, there's a little bit of jockeying around, and then I'll give you two interesting statistics. We've got the biggest jumper from the 2014 list to the 2021 list was Truth or Dare, the Madonna documentary. It was part concert film, part music documentary. Moved up 18 spots from 30 to 12 from the 2014 to the 2021 list. Now the biggest dropper was Rattle and Hum by U2, which dropped a staggering 34 spots.
Speaker 3:It went from 36 on the list of 40 to 70 on the list of 70. It barely made it in. So think about a couple of those things when we start to discuss these films and the changes on the list.
Speaker 2:So who did Madonna hug at Rolling Stone and who did Bono piss off at Rolling Stone?
Speaker 3:Exactly, exactly. And you'd think you know, you too, bono, you'd think you know, with the group of people we're talking about making this list, that you too would be pretty like, you know, pretty big on that list. You know we're talking white guys from 40 to 50. So I mean, that's kind of their, you know, kind of their sweet spot. So we'll get into a little bit more, but some other interesting stats that are floating around out there that we'll share as we start to dig into the list.
Speaker 2:But do you have any other thoughts, anthony, before we get started, no, I mean, I think the big thing for me is like I can sit back and watch a music documentary about just about anybody.
Speaker 2:When it's the learning aspect of things, when you're learning about a band that maybe you don't know about and actually in the top 10 there's, I would say there's a documentary in there that anybody could watch and I think would find interesting, even if you didn't like the band I agree but there's concert films like if I don't, like I could probably watch a music documentary about fish, like I could probably learn about, like their background, where they came from, how they grew up, what they got into, because I'm interested, because they're talented musicians, but I couldn't watch a two and a half hour concert film about them, because I know what that's well. It wouldn't be two and a half hours if it's a regular concert, be a seven hour doc, whatever exactly, but it's just, it's I don't know that's. That's, I think, where the the dilemma comes here. And I also think the one thing that I had told you before we get into this list is like there's clearly, as I'm getting older I can see where I am just not connecting with things because of my preferences in just music in general and my understanding of things, and we'll talk about that too. But other than that, I say we jump right into this list, let's do it All right. So number 10 is what I was just kind of highlighting a minute ago. So you don't have to be a fan of metallica to really love some kind of monsters.
Speaker 2:I remember seeing this movie in, uh, at the theaters. I was working at the movie theaters. I remember seeing this and I was mesmerized by the true rawness of how opened they were, because this entire documentary is really peeling back a true sense of what it's like to be in a band for so long, having a break in and a riff in a band and how to try to mend it by adding a new member into it, with the other member leaving in such a hasty way, trying to develop a new album bring and then learning about the band. So this is truly, in my, a fantastic music documentary that in in my eyes, even being not a huge fan of metallica, I could see this.
Speaker 2:If this was in a top three, I wouldn't argue it, because this is exactly what a music documentary is supposed to be. It's supposed to be about the learning experience of something, getting something out of it and feeling like you walk away with something and being like mesmerized by what just happened. And this really just like. I mean I watched it again for, like you know, since probably the first time I saw it, uh, two weeks ago and I was just as enthralled with the raw, the grittiness, the truth and just like and I think the thing I even told you to I was so shocked how they let themselves be so real in the documentary, because that documentary could have broke them too. People could have saw a side of them and been like they're true fans and been like man.
Speaker 2:Lars is a dickhead Like there's just so much to it.
Speaker 3:It's one of my. So I'm not a. I mean, I like Metall, metallica. I'm not a huge fan, um, I love this movie, I watch it pretty frequently. Um, I really I love especially, and I think there's even another, when we talk about you know, concert film versus you know music documentary, I think, um, you could even make an argument for a third category of there being a, you know, recording of documentaries about making records. Um, and this is the only one of the top 10. That's actually if we you know. There might be another one that you could argue, but I think this is the one that's actually about making a record, um, and, and their intent to make a record.
Speaker 3:Now, there's a lot of other things going on besides them just making this record, but so much stuff you see in the studio of them working on things and how they, how they write, changing how they write, their personal relationships. I mean, I think that this documentary really runs the gamut of a little bit of everything, cause it talks, you know, talking about band members losing band members, gaining band members, their relationships, the history of Metallica and then simply the recording of what becomes St Anger and a lot of that in the studio, which I think it's riveting. It's really exciting to watch. Whether you're a Metallica fan or not, I mean mean for me, the auditioning of the new bassists. The new bassist auditioning, you know sequence is my favorite in the entire movie. Um, what's? What was one of yours is that? I mean, do you like that one as much as I do? Or?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think the one funny thing to me was like when they start talking financials, like oh my god, yeah.
Speaker 3:And you're just like what like how they're like. They're like, we're gonna not to. Yeah, not. No spoiler alert. We're gonna offer you a million dollars to join our band yeah and he's just like what, yeah, and they're like and we're gonna, you know, just get you get in and get motivated and and just do the thing, and insane yeah, and it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that was clever. Yeah, I really dug like um, when they're, when, like the psychiatrist comes in and like uh, james and lars are like as his throat and he's like sure, and like trying to get things like, trying to like work things out with them, and they just like don't give a shit. But I think was that when?
Speaker 3:what about, like when he's talking about moving to san francisco? And they're like, do we need to tell him he's not in the band? Like, like, he wants to talk about set lists and shit, and they're like it's brutal it is brutal.
Speaker 2:It really is a really honest documentary. That it's just it's it's. This is something that I can watch, beginning to end, and you I'll have. This is one of those ones where my phone's down. I'm not in place to pull my phone up to go on facebook. This is not one of those things where I'm looking at the clock saying, hey, when's it going to be over? And this is not something I have to watch over multiple times, cause once you get past 38, I think, brian, you can admit this after a while, like those hour and a half long movies, they become a two or three watt, the two, like three sit downs to watch.
Speaker 3:Like it really. There's not a lot of downtime, as you know when they're dealing with things, um, and it just it's really it's well edited and that's the, the, uh, you know the the production of the Joe Berlinger and the other guy who, who passed away, sadly, um, who made all the paradise lost documentaries, um, about the West Memphis Three did this and it's really just, it's a well-made film, it's really interesting, there's a lot of drama to it and it does have great music and it just, really, you're really a fly on the wall on this whole process of making a record and dealing with their feelings and emotions, which is actually, I think, a really cool thing to see.
Speaker 2:And if I remember correctly I do remember the director was on I think it was mtv when the movie first came out and I could be wrong for saying this, but I feel I feel pretty confident in this that he was talking about. Like they'd ask like, hey, how much insight did the band have on saying what could and couldn't be in the film? And he said I, I told them that I wasn't going to do this documentary if they were going to have that much input and they honestly told me from the get-go make it real.
Speaker 2:And it is as real as it gets.
Speaker 3:They even mentioned in the documentary about, like I mean, they could have just they paid, metallica paid for the documentary. They could have easily just said we don't want this to ever see the light of day. And they did, they still had it released. So I mean, I think that's real, that's real. Kudos to them because, you know, I also love the scene where where, uh, it's, it's so like you know, spinal tap. But when, uh, when he goes to sell his like art collection and gets drunk and everything and I, to me that is just like fucking wild. That's. That's definitely like the spinal tap scene in that movie where he's laying underneath the giant bosquiat painting that he sells for five million dollars and when he says you know, everybody would take.
Speaker 3:The guys would take their money and they'd put it in their garage and I'd take a chunk of money and put it on my wall. I'm like you're such a douche, l Lars. But this is so fucking fun to watch. It is, it is.
Speaker 2:It is a great behind the scenes. It's so entertaining. It's so entertaining so good. You know talking about documentaries that, like, people buy into. There was a documentary made about Live Aid and there was a part that was there was it's a huge disc set. I mean it's fantastic. I don't even think about it's like it's a concert document like a concert oh yeah yeah, I don't think that should be.
Speaker 2:That should be in my top five action. I think about it because I've watched it a million times. But live it was really good, but there's a part of it that's missing. It's like a huge chunk of it and it was about led zeppelin and led zeppelin said it's their worst show they've ever played because that phil collins said I'm filling on drums so led zeppelin paid millions of dollars to buy all the footage from that performance.
Speaker 2:They have erased it from history. They ref like it's it's gone, like they deleted it, like the all the film has been gonzo, but they paid for everything, so it never saw the light of day.
Speaker 2:That's like spinal tap. Yeah, that is 100% spinal tap, absolutely all right. Number nine this is where Anthony becomes disconnected a little bit a lot of it, actually. I'm not going to even lie. I tried so hard to get into this. I it took me a long time to watch this all the way through, and this is homecoming. It's a Beyonce documentary about her playing at Coachella. Now, I will say this, and I've said this we've had conversations, I've talked to other people about this, because I was like man, am I just an asshole for not liking this? Like, is there something wrong with me for not liking this? I just but in the same sense, too, like I've never understand this the what's the word? Like the? There's a lot of like people that look at her as a political figure.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of people oh yeah, as a huge role model and there's, and it's just a different generation for me. Like I know beyonce as destiny's child. That's kind of when I was a kid, like when I was in high school, that was what it was when she went to her solo career. Besides the one or two hits that she had, I never really felt that she was as big of an artist as I, like that that was out and about, like it just never clicked with me. So this documentary, go ahead, I'm sorry, no, you're fine.
Speaker 3:Um, beyonce isn't making music for us, no, and that's fine. Yeah, um, I, um, my wife had talked about this. She had watched it when it came out. Um, I was. I was just in awe of the four months of musical preparation for these Coachella shows. The four months of musical preparation for these Coachella shows, the four months of dance preparation, all the stuff that she had woven in with, you know, black culture and all that, and that, to me, was really, really interesting.
Speaker 3:You know, the music I thought was really cool when it was done live. Like I've said, and we've said about Beyonce before, I understand her importance as a cultural figure. She doesn't make music for me and that's perfectly fine, but, man, this was one hell of a show. I mean, she performs as good as anyone out there and I really thought it was cool the way that they kind of wove in all the preparation stuff into the concert, so it wasn't just like the concert, you know, by itself, it was the concert with all the background stuff. But, yeah, I thought and this is one of the new, so this is one of the movies that was one of the new documentaries that came on the list and it was made since the original 2014 list and it, you know, popped right into the top 10. So, um, and we know that beyonce has, uh is usually pretty high on a lot of the the rolling stone lists but, um, yeah, I thought it was a just a really cool achievement.
Speaker 3:Um, it's not the music that I choose to listen to on a daily basis, but, man, I thought it was really impressive. But I mean, I I understand where you're coming from. I don't think I think that it's okay, that it doesn't make you an asshole or anything. It's just, you know, beyonce doesn't make music and I don't. She doesn't have to make music for me. Sure, she makes music for her fans and you can tell by that concert they love it.
Speaker 2:Oh, of course, I mean a lot of great, so I thought it was really, really cool. Yeah, it is a great listen what she was able to accomplish with that performance and the time and effort and her own personal money, that she went into the performance because I think they they had said I read online that like the like she was in the hole when she did this performance, like there was no money to be made.
Speaker 3:Like there was. I mean, it was just. It was something. It was like I and it was like a it's a once in a lifetime thing. It's a once in a lifetime thing. It was like. It was like 10 Superbowl halftime shows.
Speaker 2:I mean, it was just, it was wild, and that might be being generous with the 10. I mean, the production value in this was insanity.
Speaker 3:Wow, all the people and the dancers and musicians, and I love the, the marching band stuff, and it was just, and I love how they, how they filmed both. You know they cause she did it two weekends in a row, and one she was wearing yellow and once she was wearing pink and they would switch back and forth. And initially I was confused because I'm an old white guy, but I was like, why she wasn't she wearing yellow? Am I messed up? But uh, our minds can't keep up. No, I couldn't. And I was like, oh, I, I get what's going on now, but uh, no, I thought it was really cool. Um, but so, rolling into number eight, now we're talking an actual concert film, we're talking monterey pop from 1968.
Speaker 3:I know you and I had talked about this a little bit off the air and I think it was really cool to see all of the different musical acts from Monterey Pop, because I mean, we all hear Woodstock, woodstock, woodstock. Monterey Pop was the year before Woodstock and it was a huge. It was basically like the West Coast Woodstock and I thought it was really cool to see all the different types of artists they had playing. You've got the Mamas and the Papas and Ravi Shankar. Of course, you've got Hendrix lighting the guitar on fire, which is the indelible image from that concert, but then you've got the who and you've got lots of other acts from that time.
Speaker 4:Jefferson Airplane.
Speaker 3:Otis redding scene was great. I thought it was cool the way they did it, like it was basically like one song for each act. Um, some of the songs I was like I wish they would have picked a different song.
Speaker 4:I thought the same thing okay because give me something a little bit better. I mean, I don't have to have white rabbit, but give me something.
Speaker 3:Give me a jefferson airplane. That I know. Yeah, um, but uh, yeah, I thought it was really really cool. It's I mean especially like, I mean the shocking that woodstock is not in the top 10 or even on the list it makes I think it's number 11, okay, okay, okay, well, you're right, you're right, I apologize, but yeah, but to see monterey pop above, I mean definitely in that same vein, um, it was really cool. I think it's one of the only. Well, I mean there are a couple of other, but it's one of the only like, um, you know, festival documentaries in it.
Speaker 2:It's the only festival documentary in the top 10 well, what's interesting too is how overlooked monterey pop is. I mean everyone says how woodstock was well, it's all shadowed by woodstock.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but monterey pop was the year before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, three days, 1967, june 16th to the 18th you're talking about, and I guess the lineup was was ridiculous and the historic factor and it's crazy to think that, like, when you think of that, you think of jimmy hendrix lighting guitar on fire. When you think of woodstock you think of like the star spangled banner, like he's had so many historical moments in music. History is fantastic, but I think the one thing that blew me, blew me away is I'm being an audio video guy. Being in the field of audio video, I can be like really particular about how things look.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the Monterey Pop that I watched was a remastered version and what they did was it was a different way of remastering it. They actually went back to the film and just cleaned it instead of like upgrade, so they didn't go through the what they call a forklift process where they actually go through and they like digitize it and stuff that. What they did was they actually went through this process where the all the film that goes through this cleaning process, where it goes through like an acid wash and everything like that, and it cleans the film really good, gets all the dust off it and it gives it more of a true like film and that's the, and I was, like, mesmerized by the colors and the tones and the artistic features and the way that it sounded.
Speaker 3:It was just done, it sounded great. Yeah, oh, god, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I I loved it. And here's the thing majority of the music that was being played was not nothing that I like I didn't know a lot of it, but I was enthralled. But like how, like the whole process, I don't know, it's just it was done so well and the it's such an interesting thing like, and the whole time I was watching the music documentary I'm like I would love to find somebody who went to monterey pop and talk to them like I want to interview someone who went to that show and get like the feedback of you're talking about really truly the first true huge music concert like festival ever.
Speaker 2:That really jump-started what is now a very common thing, and I mean there's so many music festivals nowadays, but Monterey Pop if there was no Monterey Pop. I don't think there's a Woodstock.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I thought it was really cool and having seen Woodstock, I thought it was an interesting juxtaposition to Woodstock. You know Woodstock, a lot of the crowd shots I thought in Monterey Pop were really cool to see to Woodstock because you've got well, you know Woodstock. You see, there were people. A lot of the crowd shots I thought in Monterey pop were really cool to see a lot of the diversity in the audience but then just even just them sitting and how they reacted to the music I thought was really interesting. It's especially like that. That last performance is the, the Ravi Shankar one. That was like 20 minutes long and you're like, are they still playing? And and you know, but people were just glued to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah and this is one of those ones where I this. So this is where I guess concert film, concert documentary, like those things can be different in its own sense. I feel like woodstocks was more of a documentary, talking about the process of like how he kind of?
Speaker 3:yeah, they talk about getting the documentary. This wasn't so much that it was more about the festival and the music it's just more like you're just there and it was like a fly on the wall type of a thing correct.
Speaker 2:So it's tough to say because, you know, I think woodstock's a better music documentary where I think this is the better music concert film yeah I agree.
Speaker 2:All right, number seven, and this is going to drive me nuts. This is where I hope that we're on the same page in this cobain montage of heck. I'm going to say this right now. There is so many other documentaries and assists that are well more deserving to being higher than this, and also, in the same sense, there is better, better Nirvana and Kurt Cobain documentaries out there than this I watched this, thank you, thank you and watching it, like because I was watching it, I'm like I'm scratching my head.
Speaker 2:I'm like this is this is this is what this is how we're, this is how you want him to remember. Like this is like this is yes.
Speaker 3:I hate this. I hate it. I watched it when it came out originally on hbo. I was so excited to see it. I'm a bit you know, we've talked about this before big. You know, seattle, pearl jam, nirvana I love all that stuff. I've read all the books, blah, blah, blah. This to me, was just a pure like you know, let's solidify the mythos of kurt cobain and all of the things that we've heard. They're all the myth. This wasn't about truth or honesty. This was like solidifying the myth of what kurt cobain was based on courtney love and a filmmaker that wanted to make courtney love happy. That's, that's all that's going on here. I really just you know and I read some things about it that people were like oh, it's a recreation of the documentary and the animation and blah, blah, blah, you don't need all that shit. All that extra pomp and circumstance is hiding the fact that there's no substance in this documentary, zero.
Speaker 2:Zero, and I love artistic creativity, but I feel like this was at some point. I'm just like all right, enough of these, there's too much yeah.
Speaker 3:At some point. It's just and it's hiding the fact that there's just nothing underneath, there's no real truth or honesty about this. You know, I think that we, as an audience to Nirvana and to Kurt Cobain, we have an idea of. You know what we've read and seen and know about this man who's become mythologized after his death, and know about this, this man who's become mythologized after his death, um, but, uh, you know, I think that all of these he was just, he was a guy that liked to play music and he's really artistic and he did all and he did all kinds of art and he did it all well and interestingly.
Speaker 3:But you know, I think it's just sad to see, you know this, this is what we got this version of dreck to. You know, it's like it makes me anytime I hear anything about oh the heavier than heaven biopic. I don't ever want to see that ever happen in my lifetime. I don't need to see. You know, oh, is brad pitt gonna play kurt cobain? No, I do. We don't need to see. You know, oh, is Brad Pitt going to play Kurt Cobain?
Speaker 3:No, we don't need to have anybody play Kurt Cobain. Just go read a fucking book and listen to the music.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and honestly, in my personal opinion, if you want to see who Kurt Cobain was and the truth behind it, watch the unplug Like the behind the unplug with Nirvana. The fact that they went to him and said no cover songs and he literally was like, all right, fuck you, all right, I'm going to do it.
Speaker 2:And then he does David Bowie and he does, and it was crazy because you know Kurt was known for always going against the grain. I even think like watching that documentary too, going back like I think some of his drawings that came up, like I think he was, those weren't even like anything more than him just fucking around like I don't even think, I think you're, yeah, I think you're right, yeah so like they made bigger things out of it. Kurt cobain never even took himself serious, like it's just if you look into, like his, his interviews.
Speaker 4:He never took himself serious well, and I think that if you?
Speaker 3:I mean, what was kurt cobain? I think that Kurt Cobain was an artist. I think that Kurt Cobain was an artist on all levels. I think if you asked Kurt Cobain to his face if he was an artist, he wouldn't even cop to that. I think that that would be too boastful for him. And maybe that's me adding my own mythology or whatever to what I, but I don't think that. I don't think that he was a egotistical. You know, he didn't seem to me to be an egotistical kind of person. Yeah, he was going to do what he was going to do, but, um, I don't think he thought when, you know, I wrote a song and it's, I don't think when he wrote smells like teen spirit, he thought this can be the biggest thing since Sliced Bread. You know, he probably might have thought, man, it's a really good song, but I don't think he ever thought it would be what it turned into.
Speaker 2:Yeah, terrible documentary Does not belong even in the top 70.
Speaker 3:Doesn't belong on the list at all. It certainly does not belong in the top 10 without a doubt.
Speaker 2:It was, and this was. This was, uh yeah, very frustrating, very it was, yeah, not, not good at all, not in my opinion, this was garbage.
Speaker 3:So I'm glad we agreed.
Speaker 2:Oh good, I'm glad I was a little nervous. I was, you know, because you had talked about it like oh shit, he's gonna hate this. But all right, okay, all right. Next, this is an interesting one the client of western civilization, which is really a trio of films. Um, I thought I had seen this. Okay, you hadn't. I swore I thought I had seen this, like I, and then I watched it and I was like I had never seen this before. Okay, and this was a mind-blowing experience where you were locked in to seeing a general. Firstly you gotta talk about this is this movie came out in 1981 and you're talking, and when, especially when you look at the punk scene the punk scene, this is just really the creation of it you're seeing something created like coming from a 70s rock scene to this punk scene, like, and especially right on the heels of, like, like hair, metal, disco, break, all these things.
Speaker 2:You're seeing something interesting like and I was so enthralled and I love the beginning of the movie when I'm like they're having to read their statements and I'm like we are told. And he's like such a hard time saying that we're figuring out the words.
Speaker 2:You're going to be on film yeah, it's just. But seeing the creation of creation of something Cause, and then like the part where the lead singer is like, yeah, it's just, but seeing the creation of creation of something Cause, and then like the part where the lead singer is like, oh, this is where do you live? Oh, I live in this closet, and they go to the closet and it's like yeah, like it's just.
Speaker 2:It's just. It's a time that you, you're, this is. This is a point in the world where music was not being made for fame or money. It was a rebellion. This is the true definition of rebellious music. Because these bands you're talking about, x you're talking about I can't think of any of the band names off the top of my head X, black Flag, the Jerks, oh Black.
Speaker 3:Flag, Jesus yeah, Black Flag. We're talking pre-Henry Rollins, Henry.
Speaker 3:Rollins, yeah, yeah and most of the live footage you're seeing Black Flag. We're talking pre-Henry Rollins, henry Rollins, yeah yeah. And most of the live footage you're seeing is not even these people playing in clubs. They had to rent a space for them because these bands were too dangerous for clubs. You've got the germs where. You've got Darby Crash on drugs and flying around all over the place, and the most quote-unquote marketable of these bands was X, and you see them.
Speaker 3:You know John Doe's doing stick. You know needle stick tattoos and they're, you know, talking about writing songs and stuff. And it's just, yeah, these are, like you know, 20 year old kids that just decided we're going to be in a band and they're living in a band. So I love all three of the Decline movies. Sadly, my favorite is Decline 2, the Metal Years, which ended up a little out of the top 10. And I watch this movie'd shit you not like weekly, sometimes multiple times a week, because I love the, I love the sound, I love the music, um, and I love the just the non-stop parade of delusion of all these like kids thinking I'm gonna be a rock star?
Speaker 3:no, you're not, that's right. None of you are gonna be rock rock stars. But yeah, decline, decline 1 is, it's just so freaking raw and they're just banging it out and you see, all these really, really cool I mean, yeah, you're right, it's like the beginning of this west coast LA punk scene that you know and it well, I'll talk about it a little bit more because this is one of the ones that's on my top five list, along with the other two decline movies. But yeah, it's a really Penelope Spheeris, who directed all three of these and she ended up directing Wayne's World later on.
Speaker 3:But yeah, three great, great movies, and the first one is awesome. They are necessary viewing if you like music and certainly if you like punk music, and you can watch them for free on Tubi. Tubi yeah, shout out to Tubi. You can watch them for free if you want to put up with some commercials.
Speaker 2:There you go, yeah. The next one is something that I'm hoping so. A24, which is right now probably my favorite production house that's putting out movies, because I watched the movie Heretic.
Speaker 3:Heretic yeah.
Speaker 2:That movie blew my mind. First of all I had no idea what the movie was about. Then I watched it and. I was mind blown.
Speaker 3:A24 puts out anything that's wild and controversial.
Speaker 2:Controversial, except Amazing Grace, because what they did was they purchased the rights for all this filming for this Aretha Franklin performance. She did Two Nights Stand and New Temple Missionary Baptist Church and I've never watched this and I'm not a huge Aretha Franklin fan. Besides the couple of songs you know her big ones. That's all I know. Yeah, I was. This is one of those things where it's almost like historical documentary, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:Because you're seeing this treasure, this American voice, this beautiful soul giving. And just, there's a point in the movie I want to say it's the hour hour, fifth hour 10 mark, where they, they span to the audience and I rewind it like three or four times. And there is a guy, an older gentleman, and he's sitting back and he keeps going like this and you can and he, and you can see in his eyes he is lost in her.
Speaker 3:Oh God, yeah, it's so well, so well made and oh yeah, and, and so I mean it's historic, yeah, it's. It's this piece of history where you're watching them prepare, uh, for this two-night stand, and so it's it's rehearsals, and it's rehearsals with the choir and then with aretha, and it's just, yeah, it's. It's really a amazing document. I think An amazing document of just, you know, r&b music, but particularly Aretha Franklin and just like her amazing gift.
Speaker 2:What surprised me the most was this was filmed. This was filmed. What in 19,? Oh God, 1972? Yeah, 1972.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And this was sat on until what? Two years, 2018?.
Speaker 4:Until 2018. And you're like, how is this? And?
Speaker 3:they even kind of talked about it a little bit. They talked about it a little bit, I think, at the beginning, like this is like this historical document, and why isn't it, you know, why is it taking this long to kind of get out? It's just really and I think you can, especially looking at this and then comparing it to Homecoming, I mean very similar idea here.
Speaker 3:I mean they're doing these giant performances, I mean these really historic performances, and how we're getting ready. And then it's kind of like the Aretha one was kind of just hidden and tamped down for how many years. And, yeah, let this out so people can hear it and see it. And, uh, you know, really experience this, because only the people that were there got to see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's, so it's. Her voice is mesmerizing and I actually went when I was running last week. I added some songs to her when I was running and um um, I guess like the faster, didn't you? I ran my. I was the fastest I've ever ran. Um, but no, I was. She's just got a.
Speaker 2:She has a voice of an angel and it's there's certain artists in this world that when they sing and people try to replicate it, you're you can hear that someone's trying to replicate it. When Aretha Franklin sang, she sang because that was her voice and that is what she had.
Speaker 3:She wasn't trying to replicate anybody, she was just doing her thing. Yeah, I'll never forget. We were watching one of those VH1 used to do that Divas show and Aretha was on with Mariah Carey and Mariah tried to like one up Aretha and Aretha was like you know, like the next run. Aretha was like, oh, she just took her down, like you don't fuck with Aretha, cause she can show you what's going on.
Speaker 2:And if and that's saying a lot cause Mariah Carey has got vocals of an angel too, but Aretha Franklin is like if we're ever going to live, it's like you know, god, aretha.
Speaker 3:Once in a life. Yeah, I mean like a once in a life by talent. Yeah, so great, it was really really fun to watch.
Speaker 2:So all right. Moving on Number four, Stop Making Sense. This is the Talking Heads 1984 concert film.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm interested to see what. So this was on their last tour. They filmed a couple of nights in LA, but interested to hear what you think of this because I know that we both like the Talking Heads, but I was really interested to see what you think of this so I don't know if this is the best Talking Heads documentary.
Speaker 3:I don't think so it's not my favorite set list. When I watch it I bop around to the songs that I like more than others. I love Psycho Killer at the beginning, when he just comes out and this has also got like this like art film thing you know, especially with you know he wears the big suit at one point in time and he's dancing around in the big suit and all that stuff. But I think what this does show you is that it shows you what the really really good talking head songs are and what the okay talking head songs are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think there is a lot of okay talking head songs, but the problem with them is they have such great songs that a lot of times those other songs that are just okay it doesn't matter. I will say that the one thing I did take out of this was the way that this concert film was shot. It was shot, I mean and you know you're talking about the talking heads an artistic band, artistic.
Speaker 2:It was shot very beautifully, like it was a very stunningly beautiful shot film, unlike one of the other ones on this list, which I'm going to butcher in a little bit. This I enjoyed it, but I was like man, I, I, I mean there's better, like you know, um, there's better, just talking head documentaries. There's better, uh, david Bryant documentaries in general. I don't know I to me this was okay, but I don't know if this is a top 10 music documentary, let alone number four.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I think and this is where we get into okay, so this is where we get into the whole like rolling well, the rolling stone. Yeah, back to the rolling stone. These are the four that were on there seven years ago, you know, whatever. You know, 10 years ago, 2014, uh, 11 years ago, and then in 2021. So these are the top four. So these are, like they're telling us, these are the four best music documentaries ever.
Speaker 3:You know, stop Making Sense has a lot of pedigree behind it. You know, it's the, it's the last tour, it's the last time they're going to be together. There's all that drama about the talking heads and they don't get along and and all that kind of crap which might kind of feed into this, like you're seeing something that you're never going to see again because the band just can't get along and play again together. But I think that maybe that builds it up a little bit more than it is. I mean, I like Stop Making Sense. Like I said, I pop through the songs that I really, really love and I think those performances are great, but I think there's also a lot of kind of dead time and it's not like a solid, you know, kick-ass set. You know, there's definitely some stuff in there.
Speaker 3:If you've ever I don't know if you've ever watched um, the tv show documentary, now it's where they kind of make they kind of poke fun at documentaries. There's an episode, there's an episode where they they poke fun. It's not making sense. It's called test pattern and it's hilarious. It's on Netflix, so if you get, if you get Netflix, but it's so funny, so it's. They're just making fun of the whole idea of of a band like the talking heads. Making this documentary is very arty, weird type of band and it kind of and it's kind of like a you know skewers, it like a spinal tap kind of way, which is kind of fun. But but yeah, it's. I don't know if it's, it's not. I don't know if it's necessarily top four. There are other ones that I. There are other documentaries that I like better. Yeah, and we'll talk about those in a little bit and I'm sure you have.
Speaker 2:I agree. I would say, though it felt this is one of the ones that it was a shorter one out of all of them, only being at 88 minutes long. But it felt longer than 80.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's those, those, those not like you know radio hits of the Talking Heads or or those super memorable songs of theirs. They get to be a little, a little long. All right.
Speaker 2:Well, which leads us into number number three, which this one. I have a question for you, okay. Is this documentary made if not for that death of the end?
Speaker 3:that I think we may have discussed that offline. Uh, and see, that's the thing is, this is gimme shelter, number three, without the drama of altamont. And that's my question. I say no. I say without the drama of Altamont. And what ended up happening? Gimme Shelter is just another concert film, it's just another Monterey pop, if it's not this horrible tragedy happened.
Speaker 2:I have positive negatives for this. You're getting a behind-the-scenes with the Rolling Stones and you're seeing a true grittiness, because it starts off with them hearing about the death of Meredith Hunter right. And then you're seeing their reaction to it and then it kind of jumps back to the past. So it's kind of like this really interesting. It's a different take than some of the other films, how it's like you're seeing different parts, like it's kind of jumps around a little bit. I yeah fucking hate rolling stones manager, like the entire time, like him talking oh you, it's the rolling stones.
Speaker 2:You got a problem with that. Oh, fuck any. Every other word he's like, and I listen. I say the word fuck a lot. This guy was just a fucking trucker, it's very, it's very like, stereotypical and.
Speaker 3:But it's like this, like he's like oh, I'm the big manager of the, it's very, it's very stereotypical rock and roll. You know, the, the band is all fucking strung out and they're all like and so, and then they've got the. You know, oh well, the rolling stones are going to do this and blah, blah, blah. It's almost kind of like it's a parody.
Speaker 2:It is almost like a parody, like that had it not been for this.
Speaker 2:You know tragedy that happens and what was interesting to me too was and this is where I go to one of the negatives. But I'm wondering too, because I think this has something to do with the hells angels. So the way they're filming the end concert film, there's only really two shots. There's one stage left high up and one stage right a little bit lower than the drummers, that's it, that's only. And you're getting most of the back of the the band, and they're stopping and like hey, guys, come on, stop, hey. And like mick jagger's doing his best to get into it. But it's just, it's such, it's so like hard. Well, it's just, it's just that crush of like people.
Speaker 3:I mean it's and how they're, like people are sitting on the stage. Oh yeah, it's just poorly. I mean it honestly. You, I think when you watch it nowadays as we, you know, as concert goers, and we go to a show and all of the safety stuff that's built in you watch that now and you're like it's amazing, more people didn't die. That place just looked like it was a hotbed of bad intentions and I know that that's the whole thing. It's like, you know, this is the end of the flower children, the summer of love and all that stuff. But yeah, it just seemed like it was a bad situation to get.
Speaker 2:Well, I have a great idea let's have hell's angels run the event. That sounds like a fan. Well, yeah, that whole.
Speaker 3:I wonder if the, the manager, had came up with that idea. Why don't we just have Anton LaVey and the church of Satan come out and do some? You know, maybe that sounds like a better gig. I mean, it's just up to this weekend, yeah. Yeah, what's the family doing? I mean, I think that they were yeah.
Speaker 3:Could we? Yeah, Is the family busy? Or is he in jail already? I don't know Jesus, but yeah, it's. It just seems like from the beginning you're like this is not going to go well, I mean, and you know what happens at the end, but you're just like this is just setting it up for a bad situation. Yeah, and you're right, Does this? Is this a top three? Is this a top 10 documentary without a tragic death in it? No, I don't think so. I don't think so. It's just a. It's just a bad Rolling Stones concert.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And then if you go towards the end, I felt like the only thing, the other negative I had with this, they, they pushed that whole like the, the. How many times can you rewind? Fast forward, oh yeah, fast forward the gun, like just I understand the gun's there, we get it, we don't need. Yeah, we know what happened, I mean, but I will say yeah that shot of mick jagger's reaction yeah, when he finds out about the death like that gave me chills like that and that you can see it's, that you can see it's.
Speaker 3:You know, you can see the uh, the humanity there and uh and the humanity from mcjagger who is probably a person that you know, we've known from when he was a hundred years old and on, and we don't get to see that side of mick jagger. So I mean, that is something that, um, that's that's, you know, harrowing to see his reaction to that and to see him, you know, obviously it hit him, I mean, and he reacted, I think, the way any one of us would have reacted and if you think about up to this point right, we had metallica number 10 right, a pretty pretty well-known household name band.
Speaker 2:Right then you had homecoming beyonce pretty pretty household oh yeah. Name band. Right then you had monterey pop. For the most part older, older guys. Older, yeah, they know, but the younger youth probably don't. They're probably wearing a Jimi Hendrix shirt and have no idea that it's an artist.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, but nobody else, but nobody, yeah, they don't know the Mamas and the Pops and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:Then you have the Nirvana Kurt Cobain documentary. Everyone knows Nirvana, but did they really know Kurt Cobain? That's a topic for another discussion. The claim of Western civilization there ain't nobody under the age of 30 that probably knows any of the bands.
Speaker 3:Nobody knows any of those people?
Speaker 2:No. And then you have Amazing Grace, aretha Franklin. I think I don't know if she's as big of a household name now as she was like in our youth, because I don't think that her music I mean her music is going to resonate with singers, but not a commercial big head anymore.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean not on pop radio or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no and then stop making sense. I mean talking heads. I mean I don't, I, I don't think. No, not, I don't think so. Maybe you have some of the songs in a movie, but I don't think anyone knows that's who they are. It's just, oh, that psycho killer song, not the talking heads and now give me shelter. Rolling stones huge band name. How everyone knows the rolling stones.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's just, you know it's a rolling well this is also, you know, now we're getting into the, we're getting into the. Shall we call it the, the rolling stone sweet spot, where we've got the rolling stones and bob dylan and all those people that they, that they love the Rolling Stone magazine. This is their bread and butter.
Speaker 2:I wonder if they do this shit for the next two to just piss people off. It causes controversy which gets people to click their website.
Speaker 3:We've had this conversation before and I think that they do. Like I said, this is where I look. Like, like I said, this is, this is where this is where I look at the people that are making this list and I'm like they're not much older than you and me. This isn't like you know, the, the boomer set. Why are these, you know? Do they have a gun to their head saying you know you going to put this one at the top because we love this shit? And I'm like I don't, you know. So I so I watched. So number two, the last waltz from 1978, the last waltz is um Robbie Robertson and the band. It's their last concert. It's filmed by Martin Scorsese.
Speaker 3:It's very famous concert film. I'd say concert film, a little bit of documentary footage, but mainly a concert film. I watched this. I even had to go. I went and talked to a boomer. I talked to my mom. My mom was into the music. Back in the day I said do you get the band? Did you ever get the band? I was like watch this movie for the podcast. She's like no, I never got the band. I didn't understand why they were saying you know, this is the song you know by the band the weight take a load off, fanny. We all know that song. Yeah, you don't know any other song by the band unless you're a fan of the band. And to me I thought in the doc, in the in in the concert film they kept bringing up their friends. They had famous ass friends. They've got we've got neil diamond.
Speaker 4:We've got um clapton was there they've got all these giant famous people that are arguably more famous than the band neil in my mind, neil young at that part was great. Neil young was great. These people are more famous than the band Neil Young. In my mind, neil Young that part was great. Neil Young was great. These people are more famous than the damn band. They're on there more than the band is. It's the band's last concert, it's not any of these other people. What's the point? I don't get it.
Speaker 3:And here comes my Sorry, I'm going to take us down to the woke train. But Joni Mitchell comes. My sorry, I'm gonna take us down to the woke train, but you know, joni mitchell was one of the bands, one of the band's friends. She goes to play. They spend the backstage clip before we get to joni mitchell, talking about all the women that they've banged on the road, and then they're like ladies and gentlemen, here's our friend joni mitchell.
Speaker 4:How is that cool? No, like what the hell come on, martin's I was like what the hell, mart?
Speaker 3:I mean let's be honest, marty was probably knee deep in cocaine at this point oh, I guarantee this is.
Speaker 2:This is right. This is right before raging bull came out sure, yeah, so he's.
Speaker 3:You know he and robbie robertson are flying. But yeah, I, what did you? I talked to my, actually talked to my brother, who's actually younger than me. He's like, oh, I love the band, they're great. I listen to it all the time. I don't get it. No, I don't get it.
Speaker 2:It's just old white guy music I find it extremely funny that you did the exact same thing that I did, so it took me. You ready for this, I. This is eight evenings of not falling asleep.
Speaker 4:This wasn't even two hours long.
Speaker 2:No, Dude. There were so many times I'd put it on and lay in my bed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you fell asleep. Oh out cold. Exactly this movie could put you to sleep. So if you have trouble sleeping, put on the last waltz. That's right, Because it will help you go to sleep.
Speaker 2:So, first of all, who the hell puts on their final concert on Thanksgiving Day?
Speaker 4:I didn't even get that.
Speaker 2:I didn't get that either. It made no sense to me.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to a concert on Thanksgiving Day.
Speaker 4:I love my turkey, I don't care whose last concert it is I want turkey, I want turkey and football and a nap.
Speaker 2:That's right. I don't give a shit about the last Waltz, so after watching this I'm like all right, maybe I need to learn about the band First of all. Also, that drove me nuts to the fact that you named a band, the band, like that gave me cringe fact.
Speaker 4:I was like you couldn't come up with anything better, I just.
Speaker 2:I really want to go to lead singer and be like you think you're just so cool that you're with a band.
Speaker 3:Okay, so you backed up Dylan one time. Oh yeah, so here's the Dylan thing.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, let's not get into that yet, let's not get into it yet no.
Speaker 4:But St Bob, you know you've got they backed up. That's how they cut their teeth.
Speaker 2:They were Dylan's backing band, so but yeah, I don't know, man, so but yeah, I don't know. So I went down a rabbit hole and listened to the band and I could not get into the band.
Speaker 2:Okay, it just was not for me. Like you know, there's some music that's from back in the seventies and sixties and I'm like, ah, it's not not for me, but I can drink a beer out on the porch and listen to him Like, oh, I can get into this and stuff cannot get into the band. They, it just felt forced, their fan base felt forced. Like. So I talked to um, there's a guy in my neighborhood, okay who's?
Speaker 2:big into music, like okay, he's like loves all the big vinyl. What do you? What do you think? Okay? So I went up to him like all right, I had a question for you. Um, I like that we both did this, we both asked somebody else that's when you said you went to your mom, I was chuckling. I was like holy shit, I was on a walk and I saw Brian. I'm like hey. So I went to Brian and I'm like hey, oh, coincidental, by the way, but he spells it B-R-Y-A-N, by the way. I don't do that.
Speaker 2:So I was like so we were talking and he was cooking out on his grill and I'm like what do you think about the band? And he's like he said he saw them I don't know early 70s or whatever it was, and he's like I just didn't. He goes a lot of people around smoking pot having a good time, but it wasn't for me. I just don't understand the musicianship to it. And he's like really into things that make sense, like the timing, because when I tried I sent him some music and he's like the timing's off.
Speaker 2:It sounds good, but to me it just sounds like he's very. He doesn't like the band, but he's also he doesn't like Neil Young either, so there's that too. Oh well, that's a problem. But hey, everyone says their opinion.
Speaker 4:But Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2:You don't have to like everything, but, but but I asked him yeah, being from k, he's originally from kansas city I'm like, was the band a big thing around here? He's like no, he's like I don't remember them selling out anything. I don't remember them playing big venues. It wasn't a big deal. Yeah, so maybe it was a west coast thing.
Speaker 4:So I was like, oh okay, but well then, I was surprised to find out they're from canada too, and I was like what, yeah?
Speaker 3:and I'm like what's the yeah, so what's the I? I didn't get it, I just didn't get it. If you like it, that's fine. You know, that's cool. I mean it made me think of like like the moody blues or like one of those like other, just like 60s or 70s bands, and you're just, I don't know what's that one that that john mulaney likes so much, like, uh, they're dusty, I don't know, fuck, I can't even remember like just one of those old, like 70s bands or like I mean super tramp, I like super tramp.
Speaker 4:You know logical song? Yeah, give me some white guys singing some super tramp.
Speaker 3:That's great, but these ones, these guys were just like and it was just like that, you know we're gonna, we're just gonna do folk music and like weren't they all doing that shit back then like I don't know, I didn't, I didn't get it, I didn't understand it. I feel like the band.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I don't like the band well, if you thought that movie can put you to sleep, let me tell you about something that will put you right to fuck to sleep. If melatonin doesn't work for you then try this Don't look back will put you right to fuck to sleep. And this is where I can't take Rolling Stone serious. I've never seen this documentary and I it took me. I had to stop and watch other things to go back to this because I was so bored Also this.
Speaker 3:This documentary wasn't like a two hour plus documentary. It was pretty short, and so what you're, what we will know from our generation about this particular documentary is this is the subterranean homesick blues at the beginning with Bob Dylan and the cute cards and he throws them around when he's when they. So it's an early music video. We all saw this when in excess did it in? Need you tonight mediate version or whatever? So, yes, it's this historical thing that happens way at the beginning of the documentary. So, guess what, watch the beginning and then turn it the fuck off Because you're going to be exhausted. The other thing that I got from this that I kept saying in my head the whole time this follows Bob Dylan. It's 1967. He's touring in the UK. This is a UK tour. They're following him around.
Speaker 3:Bob Dylan's an asshole, oh, a big asshole. He's an asshole in this movie. I don't know if it's just him acting out or being the young rebel or whatever it was, but I'm sorry, the young rebel that sings folk songs kind of just doesn't work for me. I don't get it. I want to see a young rebel smashing some shit and doing stuff like they did in in the 90s and but yeah, I just the whole time I was watching I was like the performances weren't like super special to me. I mean, I part of me would would have.
Speaker 3:Rather, if there's going to be a dylan thing in the top 10, I'd rather see him play electric at newport Folk, which was like this big, you know rebellious act of his he. All he did was bitch and complain the whole time about you know. Oh, all this stuff and I don't know what do you think when people ask him about like writing songs and I think that's a legitimate question when they they ask him questions about writing songs, a legitimate question when they ask him questions about writing songs and he just seems so dismissive and rude to them about like you know. Oh well, it just happens. It's just a magical thing and I'm like they're just trying to ask you an honest question.
Speaker 2:Do you even understand your lyrics? Yes, I understand what I'm writing like it was hard. He's, I just he's just so pompous.
Speaker 3:And I, and yet again, and yet again I I also asked my mom. I said have you ever seen this? Don't look back, bob dylan. What do you think of that?
Speaker 2:she's like, I didn't get dylan either and I was like good by bob dylan though I didn't do that but I will say that I've never been a bob dylan fan I but I did get an opportunity to see him. Oh god, uh, 15 years ago and you're happy no I okay, we may have talked about this in previous.
Speaker 3:You know expansive designs, bob dylan and rolling stone.
Speaker 2:So because bob dylan, he's almost like, um, what's his name? Now we were I was just talking to trey about this on let's talk vinyl, the guy that they're like basically, uh, fr're like basically Frankie Valen, who's like they're putting on stage and he's just like Frankie Avalon yeah but like, even like 10 or 20 years ago he just I was happy I could understand what he was saying, and don't look back.
Speaker 3:I mean I could understand.
Speaker 2:He actually sang a little bit better when I saw him, it was mumbling and he had a couple backup singers that were like he actually sang a little bit better when.
Speaker 2:I saw him, it was mumbling and I didn't, I was just like, and he had a couple of backup singers that were like you could filling in, so the words are more coherent. But anyway, like, listen, bob, and I tried to watch a documentary not documentary the most recent film, and I just wasn't like, maybe not like him even more, I'm just not. I'm not a Bob Dylan fan even more. I'm just not a Bob Dylan fan. But this is not. This was not entertaining to me at all.
Speaker 2:It took me forever to watch this and this is the first documentary I put on, and I ended all the documentaries by finishing this recently, that's how long it? Took me to put this together.
Speaker 3:It took a couple of sittings for me too, and I was just and it was at some point where you're pausing You're like how much time is left, like what can we possibly get to? All he did was sit around and smoke and just act rude to people. And I'm not saying that you have to be like Mr Super nice guy, but you know, be fortunate for what you have and don't just act like an ass.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I couldn't agree more with you. It was, it was, it was um. Yeah, I just thought it was a poorly done documentary, um, if you want to call it that, and I just don't. I don't understand. This is not a number one document. This is not the documentary that all documentaries are made around like.
Speaker 3:Oh, no, this is a disappointment. This is a disappointment for number one.
Speaker 2:It's like it lands with a big old in my top five documentaries that I love, not a a single one of them went back to watch. Don't Look Back and say this is what our film needs to be like.
Speaker 3:I don't think any of you have ever said that either. No enough with Bob, because we know that Rolling Stone is going to pray to alter Bob. All these 40-year-old dudes are going to be like oh, we love Bob Dylan. Let's talk about some stuff that we really like and that we think you will like if you haven't seen it yet. Yeah. So, anthony, why don't you hit me with one of the documentaries on your list?
Speaker 2:Well, I'll go from bottom to top, so I'm going to start off with one. That it's pretty obvious. I'm even wearing a bootleg Pearl Jam shirt tonight in honor of it my favorite bootleg Pearl Jam shirt of all time Pearl Jam shirt tonight in honor of it, my favorite bootleg Pearl Jam shirt of all time Pearl Jam 20, to me.
Speaker 2:When that came out, I remember seeing it in the theaters and what they did. Interesting about that to Pearl Jam 20 was they did Pearl Jam 20 in the theaters and then when it came out, they also had the second disc, which was the kids are all right, which is more of the concert film version of Pearl.
Speaker 2:Jam 20. But I liked it because you were going behind the scenes and you saw a true raw side of all of the artists in the band and it gave you this kind of pullback of like what the band was about, the struggles they had. There was a lot of like things that had never been released before coming in. It was really good. I really enjoyed it. It was something I can go back and watch often and I really I just thoroughly enjoyed Pearl Jam 20. Um it, it makes me, you know, I do think while the band was celebrating 20 years, I still think that was early on in their career and we'll talk about that in one of the other documentaries. Um, I do wonder, like, what a Pearl Jam 30 would look like or hell, I mean, we're getting close what a Pearl Jam 40 is going to look like.
Speaker 4:Are they?
Speaker 2:going to really dig deep Because I think Pearl Jam in general is very much defined by 10 years, like everything with them. If you look at their first 10 years or second 10 years and even the 10 years leading up to 30, like, what they've done can be their own documentaries. But I thought Pearl Jam 20 was done really well. I thought it was entertaining. I thought you can see that it was done with love and care and it was made for the fans. But I also feel like if you weren't a fan of the band kind of like with some kind of monster or Metallica you can go back, watch this and learn something and walk away and enjoy it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I agree. Pj20 is a really great documentary. Cameron Crowe put a lot. You could tell it was just really made with love and care. It really gives you an idea of the full first 20 years of the band. I think it'll be really interesting if they do do something for 40 years.
Speaker 3:I can't believe that they were getting on the verge of being together for 40 years. It's really kind of mind-blowing to me. But yeah, that's a great movie. So I'm going to start with I'm going to cheat a little bit and we talked about it already, so I'm going to do the Decline trilogy.
Speaker 3:Decline, you know, western Civ 1, 2, and 3. We talked about 1. I really I just love how these three movies and if you haven't seen you know, decline 2, the Metal Years and then Decline 3, three movies and if you haven't seen that you know, decline to the metal years and then decline three, um, it's kind of really spans um a lot of a lot of the time and my list kind of focuses on a lot of the music that we that we grew up and listened to, and in several different ways, and I'll kind of explain that. But you know, decline really hits that. Decline one hits that punk from the seventies, eighties. Decline to is is kind of when we were growing up and it was all that hair metal um, which I think is uh, it's.
Speaker 3:Decline two, is is more fun than anything else. It's less about like serious music and it's more just about, you know, brain dead weirdos trying to make it as a, you know, as hair band, as people in hair bands um, and then decline three um tends to be. It's it's about. You know, it's about more punk in the 90s. You know kids are waiting to see offspring and green day, but it really focuses more on um, the fans and and the kids that are, like you know, street punks in la um, which I think is is really interesting, and there's a lot of cool stories about just the kids and it's a little bit more sad and depressing than the first two, but I think as a trilogy they all work well together and it really kind of spans that 20, 30 years from the 70s to the 90s.
Speaker 3:But I really like those. I watch them a lot.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I've watched the first two. I've not watched the third one. Um, and I, like I said, I thought I had seen these before, but I hadn't. But I was so enthralled with though, like with the first one, that I was like then we had talked, and you're like oh, there's more.
Speaker 3:I'm like, oh, okay, so then watch the second one um, the people in the second one are just like, they're all like I'm gonna make it, I'm totally gonna make it. Well, why? Because I, because I won't stop, okay, whatever at some point you're going to the like I wish and I I searched for this. I've searched for it several times. I wish we could go back and find out what happened to all the people that were trying to make it in bands.
Speaker 3:Um, because I'd like to know, because some of them are like, oh, just, you know, roll me in a grave and and throw some flowers on me when I'm, when I'm dead, or whatever. I want to know who, like if this guy was selling insurance or whatever. But uh, yeah, that's. That to me is kind of that's, it's just, and I think the music is actually not bad in that. No particular documentary it's. It's fun to put on and just listen to while you're, while you're doing something okay, well, yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 2:Great, it is definitely a something I almost feel like being a music fan, it's almost a must watch oh, I think so, yeah, I, I agree.
Speaker 3:What's. What's another one? What's the next?
Speaker 2:one for me. So this is an interesting one, because this is it's not about an artist, but about the fan perspective. There's this movie that came out in 20 oh god, I should know this 2018. I think it was yes 2019.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, it's called dennis and louis louis and it's a documentary about this couple that have no kids, live in queens, new york, and their entire lives since they were kids up until I think they're in their 70s. In this movie, um love each other and they just go around and go to concerts and it's about their love of music and their history with bands like the Ramones and like the Ramones staying at their house and like she had all these, like when they're going through her house, like they're. She's pulling out the jeans of Joey Ramone and like, oh, these are Joey Ramone's jeans and oh, here's some shoes from Johnny Ramone. And then, oh, these are Joey Ramone's jeans and oh, here's some shoes from Johnny Ramone. And then they're going back and then they're talking. You know they're talking to like black rubber motorcycle and Oasis and the?
Speaker 3:um, the oh, my God.
Speaker 2:Oh God, I mean, uh, fat white elf, jimmy Gordon, john Grant happy Mondays, peter Hook, all these people that have like been around them, that have like totally been enthralled by their music.
Speaker 2:And they're like totally been enthralled by their music and they're like there it's at one point there's something that was like click with me about what love is and what music can do with like there's a point where you can see where um Lois can't really um walk anymore.
Speaker 2:So Dennis is like pushing in a wheelchair into these venues and these bands respect them because, like, they've been around and they're they're just there and it's and I don't know there's just like this respect level of the bands as they're playing to them and how many concerts have been to, and like their love of music and what it means to them. And it's this beautiful, passionate story about the love of music, the love of individuals and how they came together and it was done in a way that was God, it was amazing and just listening to all the bands they've seen in the history and what they love, and I don't know it's. It's such a beautiful tale and it's such a great documentary about music in general and uh, yeah, I, I can't speak highly enough about it. I would 100% recommend this to anybody.
Speaker 3:I definitely need to watch that. I I looked it up when you sent it to me and I thought it sounded really, really cool. Um so, yeah, that is definitely at the top of my list. I'm gonna check that out this week all right, give me your next one uh.
Speaker 3:So my next one is, uh, the documentary. It was on the, it was on the list of documentary hype, which is about grunge in seattle. Um, it's got some great live performances from bands, um, that didn't necessarily, you know, make it big like Pearl Jam and Nirvana. It does have the first ever performance of Smells Like Teen Spirit in it. It's got some great performances by bands like the Gits and Seven Year Bitch and lots of different Seattle band ones that you haven't necessarily heard of over the years.
Speaker 3:But I think it's a really cool. It goes along with kind of the decline movies because it's kind of you know, it's you know outside of punk and after you know, after punk and after the hair metal thing, then we've got grunge and so you've got hype. That's talking about Seattle and the scene and sub pop and their whole, like you, their whole weird world domination stuff and how they really kind of tried to hype the label versus hyping bands and how bands all of a sudden got big and then there were people coming into Seattle to try and sign new bands and just kind of that feeding frenzy around. What a scene is and I think it's really interesting. It's got great music and, uh, watch that one quite frequently, so it's it's one of my favorites and it's just got a lot. It's got a little pearl jam in there, so a couple of eddie vetter interviews, so, um, it's really interesting to to kind of get that ground perspective on what happened in seattle yeah, and it's one of those.
Speaker 2:It's a yearly watch for me and what I love about it is it's the behind the scenes of success of other bands, of what was around them, and that was always intriguing to me, because when you love the band and kind of seeing what's around, that, that was always. It's a clever way of looking at it and I love the fact that the artists that were in Seattle still respect each other and respected others that didn't make it and always pushed them to go further. I don't know.
Speaker 3:No, I was actually listening. There's a guy on YouTube that does a lot of interviews and I was. I was listening to an interview today with it was Kim Thayil and Chris novoselic and, um, uh, jack and dino, who produced a lot of the early sub pop stuff, just talking about soundgarden and nirvana and just the amount of respect that those guys had for one another and and the different types you know, because soundgarden and nirvana were, you know, they were heavy but they were totally different types of music. Um, but just to hear the respect they had for one another is is really cool. I mean, there wasn't. I think that. I think that you know, the media tried to portray this whole like Nirvana versus Pearl Jam thing, but I don't think that was really real. I think that that was just some sort of media concoction to to to make things exciting or whatever, because we have to build things up to tear them down. But yeah, hype is a great documentary. If you haven't seen it, go watch it.
Speaker 2:Definitely definitely put it on your list.
Speaker 2:The next for me was End of a Century. This is an interesting documentary because what the original idea behind the documentary was making a documentary leading up to the Ramones going into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame was the original idea behind this documentary. What happens is, as they're filming this documentary, jim Fields, who was the director, started seeing the decline of DD Ramone and his health and in this documentary you see DD Ramone die, you see Joey Ramone die and then you see Johnny Ramone die all in this documentary when it was being filmed and it wasn't supposed to happen, and you see this gritty. Then you see Johnny Ramone die, all in this documentary when it was being filmed and it wasn't supposed to happen, and you see this gritty like you see the. They show you the last performance from the Ramones, which was interesting because still to this day this is and and it kills me that no one's ever asked this question it's something that if I ever interview Eddie Vedder, be a question and ask is you know, the last song ever performed by the Ramones?
Speaker 2:Eddie Vedder was pulled on stage for like that was um. It was the last song ever performed by the ramones. Eddie vetter was pulled on stage for like that was um. It was the last song before eddie came out and sang with the pinhead uh mask on um and I wonder if he? I don't think he knew it was the last song either, because I think he was kind of shocked when he walked on stage and they, they were walking off like he was expecting more but anyway the documentary is this beautiful tale of a band from queens in 1974 making it the struggles they had because they never were.
Speaker 2:They never were financially successful like when they when, when you go into, when they're interviewing johnny ramone in his house, he's in a very small queen's home where you can, from the interview place, you see the kitchen over his shoulder and his bedroom. It's small. They never were super successful, so it's it's. It's a tough documentary to watch because it's a beautiful story of a band falling apart and them filling in gaps. And they're like you. You can see that they love each other but they'll never work together. Like you can see, dd wanted it, but he wanted Joey to want him there, and Johnny and Joey never really connected in a way that they were just performing to perform. They, they. There was, there's a lot to their story, but this is a beautiful documentary that shows you the truth, like a lot of truths, and as a ramones fan, like you know, I never had an opportunity to see them. This was, this was stunning and I, I love I love this documentary so much.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I haven't watched it in a few years and I need to go back and watch it again. But yeah, it's um, it's a really sad story at the end. I mean, and the ramones, in and of itself, were just, you know, yeah, because they never. They were always a huge influence to tons and tons and tons of bands, but they never, like, made that, they never made the big money.
Speaker 3:And they weren't, but they slogged it out all the time. Yeah, it's true. So next on my list and I don't know if you've seen this documentary it was on the list higher up but Dig, which is, yeah, so Dig is a documentary about two bands, so this is kind of like the post-grunge of my list. So after Hype, we've got Dig, which features the Danny Warhols and the Brian Jones Massacre. Brian Jones Massacre, yeah, and it really shows. I think it's really cool.
Speaker 3:I mean, obviously it's got tons of great music, but I think it's really cool to show two bands in similar places and one, you know, one goes the major label route and the other one is just, you know, too toxic and explosive to do anything Like it's a. You know the Brian Jones Time Maskers just talked about and these like they're amazing and they're great and Anton does all these great things, but they're just like fraught and toxic and they can't get along and there's addictions and fights and all that shit. And then you've got the Danny Warhols. That are, you know, they all get along and they're well adjusted and but they're going through the studio system and they're paying three hundred thousand dollars for a video and I think it really gives you a good idea of what the kind of post grunge, post nirvana record uh business was like, um, kind of leading up to what it is now obviously pre-internet and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3:But it really gives you a really good glimpse of two really great bands in two different places and kind of what happens when you get inside. You get inside that system, that record company system, or you stay outside and see what happens. So yeah, I watch that pretty. Uh, yeah, it's, it's, I've watched that pretty frequently and uh, it's a great documentary it.
Speaker 2:So once you said who it was about, I clicked. I have seen that one um and the brian, brian, john, what it's a brian jones time master thank you the his like ego in this, in this document is insane he is nuts. Actually, they're coming to Kansas City in September and I'm like I am going to that. There's no chance I'm not going to that.
Speaker 3:The thing that I think is cool about a band like the Brian Jones Time Massacre is because they still have that level of danger that rock and roll is supposed to have. And I think a lot, I think a lot of it's been kind of sucked out of, you know, as it's become more commoditized and you know it's it's more business oriented and things like that. But that idea like you're going to see an act and it could either be the greatest show you've ever seen or it could just all turn to at a moment's notice and just having that, having it be on that kind of wire of it's one or the other is, is what I think you know rock and roll is kind of should be, about and, uh, we don't get enough of that nowadays, it's everything's a little too safe, I think yeah, I, I.
Speaker 2:I kind of agree with you on that one. There's a lot of safeness going on.
Speaker 3:But they are fucking crazy.
Speaker 2:I'm totally going to go see them. Next on my list is the documentary. This is kind of funny. It kind of goes in that same place. It's called Burning Down the House. It's a documentary about CBGBs leading up to the closing of CBGBs.
Speaker 2:Once the CBGBs wasbgb's was purchased, the building was purchased, um, the director kind of jumped in to start filming some stuff about it in the history of it and filmed it all the way to the closing, to the point where they were. They were putting that cbgb's in las vegas, like the history of it. They talked to all the bands that were played cbgb's what it meant to them, uh, the final performance at cbgb's, um to the history of it. They talked to all the bands that were played CBGBs what it meant to them, uh, the final performance at CBGBs. Um to the death of the owner, to, like, you know, the owner of CBGBs, which is hilarious to me, cause there's also a movie about CBGBs out like, um, god, I forgot what it's called, but it's such a good one, I think it might be just called CBGBs.
Speaker 2:It's called CBGB, yeah, yeahb's. It's called cbgb, yeah, yeah, and it's, it's amazing. I love it. It's just, it's great. Um, there is cbgb's. Really was a great platform for so many artists that we all love to this day like without cbgb's, we might not have the police blondieondie.
Speaker 3:Ramones In so many different types of artists like anybody would play there. It wasn't like oh well, we only have these types of bands. It was all types of bands Like, I mean Pearl. Jam played there at one point. I mean like everybody, anybody who's? Anybody played at CBGB's?
Speaker 2:And now it's a.
Speaker 3:Victoria's Secret. I thought it was a John Vervato's, I thought it was. Oh, either way, I was. Actually, I was in New York, um, I'm, I assume it was closed by them, but they still had the awning out front and, uh, I was able to go and see it and take some pictures before they took the awning down, and now it's the rock and roll hall of fame, which which is where it belongs. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, just think of how many and people talk about how shitty it was and but, but people still wanted to go and play there and people wanted to go see music there, and it's one of the great american venues I think it's one of those things.
Speaker 2:you know that it was a sound great there? No, I've heard that was terrible. Was was the atmosphere great? No, but it's. I think there's things in this world that we can't explain, that you have to be there to understand it. Yeah, Like we can talk about it, but we'll never truly understand that feeling of walking into that place and the smells and the atmosphere and those bands. I mean could you imagine seeing new order?
Speaker 2:or I mean joy division right, oh yeah before they get and they're playing on a stage and you know talking heads, blondie, I mean all these bands that just were young and and just trying to thrive, and they're playing, and sometimes nights they're playing right after each other oh, yeah, and they would have.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they would have like bands.
Speaker 2:You wouldn't think that would go together and they're just, you know, all playing oh yeah I mean so I mean iggy pop, the list goes on, but the documentary was done really well. This is a. This is I think it's more of a tragedy when you think, when you look back at it, because the owner did it to himself a little bit and there's a lot of things in documentary that wasn't there, like he had an opportunity to purchase the building but he was so behind and he never was good with the finance uh, financials and his daughter tried so hard to get him above water and just never worked. Um, but yeah, this is, this is a great, this is a great documentary and it's, it's, there's. This is one of those ones you learn a lot. This is very much a learning experience uh, that's awesome.
Speaker 3:I need to watch that again. I haven't seen it in a while. Um and my last one is so ending my arc here in in what we'll call dad rock um is uh, wilco's I am trying to break your heart. Um, I don't know if you've ever seen it, but it's uh. So it's during. It's Wilco during the recording, so it's so.
Speaker 3:It's a you know it's a documentary, but it's also a recording documentary where they're making Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, and so it's the band doing a lot of experimentation and recording in their studio, doing a lot of experimentation and recording in their studio, and then we've got a lot of, you know, inter band tensions and then people getting fired in the midst of the record being made and then finishing the record and then delivering it to the record company and the record company is like, yeah, we don't want that record.
Speaker 3:And then Wilco buys the record back and then they sell it back to the record company again and just all this stuff that you see, like a mid-sized American band that's super talented, with these great musicians, and they have to deal with all this record company bullshit and everything just to make things work. And it's great to see that Wilco has been able to sustain itself for years afterwards see that Wilco, you know, has been able to sustain itself for years afterwards. But, um, you know, this was a real, I think a real you know kind of point in their career where they could have gone one of two directions and and they were fortunate enough to uh to create this you know kind of landmark album and uh and then document the uh, the process of doing so. But it's, it's a. It's got great live footage, studio stuff where they're doing a lot of experimenting and it's really a great watch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know Wilco, which is funny. I've had tickets to see Wilco multiple times and one way or another it just never worked out. Yeah, I never watched this documentary. It definitely sounds like, because once again it's creating of something and that's the truth behind, like how it happened and going through things. So I definitely have to check that out. But yeah, it's um, I have to, I'll give it. I'll definitely add that to the list of having to watch circled yeah it's, you won't.
Speaker 3:You won't regret it, it's. It's really a fun watch. Tweety is an interesting character.
Speaker 2:What's your last one? This documentary is called the Fearless Freaks. You have to buy the DVD because the Flaming Lips pulled it Really. Yes, I had to buy the DVD to get it recently. It's nowhere to stream. So the documentary came out in 2004. It was right off the heels of Yashimi Battles, the Pink Robots and Going Into a War with Mystics, which was the 2006 album, and the documentary is interesting because it talks about the battle of the Flaming Lips coming with this band from Oklahomaoma, like having that were, like they were making all this experimental music, like they were a punk band in the 80s, like their music was very punk. Then they had, um, you know, the success with uh, she don't use jelly in the early 90s. But then they kind of fell off and didn't have anything and, and you know, they had kind of a cult following and then it kind of like it wasn't, because in the 90s they were playing very small clubs like nothing, you know, nothing was really sticking at that point.
Speaker 2:So with this like it's interesting because when they made the sacramentary Yashimi Battles, the Pink Robot was a huge success, like that was that really projected them. They got cult status playing coachella, playing bonnaroo coming out in the ball, all these things. Like he was becoming, he was finding his inner self and utilizing the abilities of artistic creativity to putting in the music like you're talking about. You know the band they talked about that, that album, um, it starts with z I can never say the name of it, but they. They put out this album where it's basically four separate cassette tapes and when you play them at different points it makes a whole new song. So if you play the first album and then wait 10 seconds for the second one, you have to have four cassette players to do it and in the documentary they show them doing this and they talk like the struggles of the band and how, because they've gone through a lot of band members and, yeah, in the documentary they even have one band member using drugs in the and I mean there's so much to it and it is a great behind the scenes. Look at this band.
Speaker 2:But what was interesting to me was I remember seeing, I remember watching this documentary when it came out, and then seeing, uh, the flaming lips with my wife, and then they had another uptick in their career and they've been an uptick. They have a cult following. I've seen the flame lips quite a few times. They're an amazing oh yeah live. Probably top five in my opinion. Just their show, their visuals, everything about it. It just makes you feel good, you feel like you're lost. It's fantastic, um, but it is. It is a truthful documentary. But what happened was they put it out because they thought that they had hit their peak, like they thought that Yushimi was going to be their peak. They were making the next album. It was going to be decline.
Speaker 2:Well once they didn't have a decline and their band members was unsuccessful. And now they're looking back at this and some of the bands were put in a negative light. You know, when it came to certain things using drugs on the screen, whatever case may be they literally pulled everything.
Speaker 3:So the only way to get this is the.
Speaker 2:DVD, which is weird because Wayne Cohen is known for his truthful and honesty and kind of openness, but I guess he wanted this. So, yeah, the only way to get this is on DVD. But it is a really good, true, raw interpretation of the band and it is beautifully done in the colors. You know it was. It was directed by Wayne Cohen's friend who made a bunch of music videos. It was his first like true official, like big thing, and it was, yeah, it was amazing, so it was good stuff.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, man, there was. So there was a this. I think it had to have been the summer of like 94, 95. Literally, the flaming lips open for every band I went to see like that whole summer. You'd be like, what they're opening for tool? What? Oh, they're opening for sound garden? Like, yeah, they open for like every, every show I went to see that summer. It was like, oh, the flaming lips are opening. So yeah, they have busted their asses for many, many years. But yeah, that's a really, really good documentary.
Speaker 4:Have you seen it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I've seen it. Yeah, I think I saw it. Well, god, I might have got it from Netflix back when you got DVDs. Yeah, 2005,.
Speaker 2:back in the day, 20 years later, Hell yeah. That hurts my head to fit, but let's hey, let's quickly run down the list of the documentaries that we talked about tonight, Cause I seen, uh, there've been quite a few people asking about what documentaries we talked about on the list.
Speaker 3:You do your list, and then I'll do mine.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, let's first I'm gonna do Rolling Stones top the top 10 off of kind of monster. The Metallica documentary Homecoming. The documentary about Beyonce playing at Coachella. Monterey Pop, which is a documentary about Monterey Pop, the festival before Woodstock. Then you had Cobain Montage of Heck, the HBO documentary about Kurt Cobain. The Decline of Western Civilization, part one. The 1981 documentary about the punk scene coming out. Amazing Grace. The A24 documentary came out in 2018 about Aretha Franklin. Um? Uh playing at the Baptist church. Uh, stop Making Sense. The? Um Talking Heads documentary about their last show. Uh, the last. The tour, the last tour they performed. Gimme Shelter, which was the documentary about Rolling Stones. Uh performance with the Hell Angels. And the? Uh passing of the? Uh concert viewer. The Last Waltz, which is the documentary about the band's last performance on thanksgiving. And then don't look back, which is the bob dellin documentary.
Speaker 3:I'll let you go to your top five, uh, brian my top five, in no particular order, um and, like I said, I cheated a little bit are decline of western civilization, one through three, uh, hype dig uh, which features the Dandy Warhols and the Brian Jonestown Massacre, and Wilco's I Am Trying to Break your Heart.
Speaker 2:You forgot one, wasn't it? Funky Monks on yours.
Speaker 3:Funky Monks. I dropped it, I mean, since I did the decline thing. But no, if you haven't seen, take a look. If you haven't seen Funky Monks by the Red Hot Chili Peppers. It documents the making of Red Hot Chili Peppers. It documents making a blood sugar sex magic. You can see it on YouTube. It's really good.
Speaker 2:Okay, and then for me, I had Pearl Jam 20, which is a documentary about Pearl Jam's 20th anniversary. Dennis and Lois, which is the documentary about two elder music fans that live in Queens, new York, and their history of seeing bands such as the Ramones and Black Rebel Motorcycle Club and Oasis and things of that nature and their connection to the music. End of a Century, which is a documentary about the Ramones, leading up to them going into Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and the deaths of three prominent members of the band. Burning Down the House, which is a documentary about CBGBs and the closing of CBGBs and the history of it. And then the last one is the Fearless Freaks, which is a documentary about the flaming lips in 2005,. Leading up to this, leading out of the success of you should be battles, the pink robot and so much more. So that was that in a nutshell. Well, that was. I think that was pretty good. I thought so too. I thought so.
Speaker 2:Yeah that was good and we went listen, that's a long we have. I don't know if we've ever done a show this long. That's almost two hours long.
Speaker 3:Well, we had a lot to talk about.
Speaker 2:We had a lot to talk about yeah. A lot to talk about. Well, I enjoyed this. I definitely if you are into music documentaries, this is a good way to get into them for sure. If you've never watched some of theirs is absolute dog shit.
Speaker 3:That's just my take a look. Take a look at the Rolling Stone list. We'll post the link to the 70 greatest and then I sent Anthony the link to the one from 10 years ago, the 40 greatest. You can take a look at some of them, but yeah, there are some good ones on there. You know. Pop around some of the new ones that were added from the last list that were created in between. There was a Grateful Dead Long Strange Trip Velvet Underground documentary. The Amy Winehouse documentary, amy, also came out in 2015. That's a really good documentary and that was pretty high on the list.
Speaker 3:Really, really sad, but there are a lot of really interesting documentaries on the list and a lot of them are streaming so you can go and watch them for free.
Speaker 2:That's right. Alright, I'm going to start hitting the music in the background. We're going to be listening to the Vagaboys new single that just came out today, the Bog Body, which I love. The Vagaboys, yes. So if you haven't listened to Vagaboys, I'm going to be pushing them like crazy, but anyway, give them a listen. Brian, anything you want to mention before?
Speaker 3:we head. No, just good luck with the half marathon and we'll talk to you guys next month.
Speaker 2:All right until next time. That's Brian. I'm Anthony and you just listened to another Unnecessary List. I can't help if I'm impressed.
Speaker 1:It has nothing to do with you. You are consumed by jealousy. You are completely obsessed with the boy.